- From: Philipp Cimiano <cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de>
- Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:23:35 +0200
- To: public-ld4lt@w3.org
Dear Seth, thanks for your comments. I am very glad to hear the view of a non-Eruopean, and even more a very informed view such as yours. I try to answer below... Am 07.04.15 um 13:32 schrieb Seth Grimes: > I hope you'll indulge a non-European's questions and comment. Mine are > in response to Philipp's 10 Crucial Questions > (https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ld4lt/2015Apr/att-0001/LD4LT_2_4_2015_DigitalSingleMarket.pdf) > -- > > - Does Common European Sales Law require SMEs to provide > product/feature information in 24 languages? Not per se. The question is: what is the value of a Common European Sales Law if people can not engage in cross-country shopping because they can not understand the products that are offered and under what conditions they are offered. This seems obvious to me, but possibly it is just an unwarranted assumption that I am making. I would be happy to know your view on that. It is true that the impact of language barriers on corss-lingual shopping behaviour are not well studied as far as I know. For sure, language barriers are not the only issue. This can be observed for the case of cross-border commerce between the US and Canada. In spite of lacking a language barrier, there is still an observable detrimental effect on cross-border sales compared to domestic commerce. > > - Why is it necessary (for an SME, implicitly), to provide for online > dispute resolution in 24 languages? Well, if online dispute resolution is implemented, then customers will send their written complaints to the bodys that handle the dispute resolution process, and they will need to mediate between the service provider and the service consumer. It is unclear right now how dispute resolution will be implemented, but the assumption that some cross-language communication will be involved seems reasonable. > > - Is there a governmental mandate that an SME should be able to > interact with customers in 24 languages and in listen to the voice of > customers in 24 languages? No, there is no governmental mandate indeed. The assumption is that, if companies sell across borders, they will have to communicate with customers speaking different languages. Unless we assume of course that all communication is done in some lingua Franca: e.g. English? Esperanto? > > I read through the 1 November 2014 letter from Jean-Claude Juncker to > Andrus Ansip, regarding the Digital Single Market mandate > (http://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/cwt/files/commissioner_mission_letters/ansip_en.pdf). > Nowhere does it use the word "language" (or "linguistic" or similar). > It does use the word "pragmatic," and it uses "efficient" twice. The > second use is in the sentence, "When we act, we will always look for > the most efficient and least burdensome approach." > > I also read the December 2012 Single Market Act document > (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/smact/docs/20120206_new_growth_en.pdf). > > It says, "We need to... put in place a future-proof digital single > market," which is a completely stupid notion, that you can put in > place a future-proof digital (or non-digital) anything. Put that point > aside. It also doesn't mention "language." > > So really my questions are, Where does the desire -- or is it more > than a desire? -- to for SMEs (and large enterprises as well) to > operate in 24 languages come from? And why does LIDER want -- or how > is LIDER compelled -- to support a pursuit that forces participating > (European) technologists to go broad when the commercial market, which > is moved by consumer and business demand rather than essentially > non-productive governmental mandates, is instead going deep? > > Going for 24 languages is anti-efficient, and so long as less-used > European-origin languages are prioritized over large-market, > non-European, export-target languages it's anti-pragmatic from a > business point of view. Indeed, the letter to Vice President Ansip does not mention cross-language communication at all. However, the assumption that underlies the current legal framework developed by the EC "Digital Single Market" is that cross-border commerce will flourish or increase significantly once the legal framework is implemented. This is the holy grail behind this exercise. My reasoning goes as follows: if the goal is to stimulate cross-border commerce, then we need to find ways to support SMEs in describing their products and services in such a way that people from other countries can understand these product descriptions. Otherwise, we will have a legal framework with no impact. That is not pragmatic. How we do this pragmatically and efficiently is indeed the question we need to solve in the very near future. Btw. LIDER has the only mission of establishing a roadmap and community around the above mentioned topics, fostering public dialogue, developing best practices, etc. LIDER is neither in the position nor has the mandate or resources to support anything from a technological perspective. I hope I have clarified some of your questions and I would be very happy to know your view on the issue. Looking forward to your response, Philipp. > > Seth > > > On Tue, 7 Apr 2015, Víctor Rodríguez Doncel wrote: > >> Philipp, all, >> >> Regarding: >> >> /1) How do we support SMEs in providing information about products >> and their features in 24 languages? // >> //2) How do we ensure consistency and homogeneity of product >> information so that Pan-European cross-vendor comparison becomes >> possible? / >> >> unless the "products" refer to "LT-related products", the scope is >> maybe too broad. Bounded problems like those related to an EC >> Regulations are tractable... >> >> In 10 years from now, harmonization of the copyright legislation at >> EU level will have been a fact, as well as data protection >> (forthcoming EC Regulation). It might even happen that the Digital >> Single Market must include USA, if the TTIP is finally signed. >> Cross-national commerce will become more important, hence the >> publication of offers, terms and conditions will have to be >> multilingual. If I had a (digital) product to offer I would like web >> browsers to find me in any language (does schema.org support >> multilingualism well enough?), to check if my product/service >> complies with the local legislation and to publish terms & conditions >> using the applicable legislation terminology. Perhaps the juridical >> localization has a say here.... >> Of course, it is very hard to say how the future will be in 10 years. >> I guess that sure bets like Machine Translation will be also hot >> topics... >> >> >> Regards, >> Víctor >> >> >> El 07/04/2015 9:09, Philipp Cimiano escribió: >>> Dear Victor, >>> >>> thanks for joining the discussion. I am a bit puzzled by your >>> repsonse. Actually, I thought that we as LD4LT community would have >>> most interest and expertise to contribute to questions 1 and 2. >>> >>> I see this as a problem essentially of supporting linking and >>> localization of product catalogues across countries. And to me this >>> is a core topic for this community, would you not agree? >>> >>> It is true that points 8 and 9 are not specific to LD4LT, but >>> important topics that we should be aware of to create synergies >>> between different initiatives. >>> >>> So question back to you: which questions would you say are relevant >>> to drive our R&D effort in the next 5-10 years? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Philipp. >>> >>> Am 06.04.15 um 12:25 schrieb Víctor Rodríguez Doncel: >>>> Dear Philipp, all, >>>> >>>> I had read the same sources you cite in the PPT and in consequence >>>> I share your view. >>>> Nevertheless, I would like to comment on the questions. See below. >>>> >>>> El 02/04/2015 15:54, Philipp Cimiano escribió: >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> thanks to those who attended the call today on the topic >>>>> "Multilingual Linked Data for the Digital Single Market". >>>>> >>>>> Here are the 10 important questions that I raised in my slides... >>>>> >>>>> 1) How do we support SMEs in providing information about products >>>>> and their features in 24 languages? >>>>> 2) How do we ensure consistency and homogeneity of product >>>>> information so that Pan-European cross-vendor comparison becomes >>>>> possible? >>>> I dont think there is much we can do regarding 1-2) >>>>> 3) How do we support online dispute resolution in 24 languages >>>>> effectively? >>>>> 4) How do we support finding previous online dispute resolution >>>>> similar cases, also across languages? >>>> There is a recent Directive (Directive 2013/11 on alternative >>>> dispute resolution for consumer disputes) and a new Regulation >>>> (Regulation No 524/2013 on online dispute resolution for consumer >>>> disputes), and the >>>> Online Dispute Resolution is a hot topic in the EC agenda. There >>>> are a few hundreds ADR systems in force, and there is a plea in >>>> favour of their coordination. >>>> Multilingual Linked Data can play a role here but not a leading >>>> role. It would be good knowing the requirements of the ODR/ADR >>>> community and determining if we can be of help. >>>> >>>>> 5) How do we support linking of public sector datasets (e.g. >>>>> business registry data, open government data) etc. across >>>>> languages effectively to allow for mashups, cross-country >>>>> comparisons, repurposing of data etc.? >>>>> 6) How do we support SMEs and other organizations in finding and >>>>> accessing public sector data intuitively? >>>>> 7) How do we ensure interoperability of public services across >>>>> borders? >>>>> 8) How do we ensure quality of and trust in data? >>>> This problem is not specific of the Multilingual Linked Data >>>>> 9) How do we support clearance of licensing issue to ensure >>>>> compliance in data use? >>>> This belongs to the private law sphere, and we can do little here, >>>> but provide the means for a data market --for which we are working >>>> already at LIDER. >>>>> 10) How do we support SMEs in interacting with customers in 24 >>>>> languages and in listening to the voice of customers in 24 languages? >>>>> >>>>> Do you have any feedback or comments on these 10 questions? >>>>> >>>>> Comments on how Multilingual Linked Data Technology could >>>>> contribute to develop solutions to address the above mentioned >>>>> challenges are more than welcome (see slides 10-15 in my >>>>> presentation, attached for the sake of easier reference). >>>> Thanks and see you soon! >>>> Victor >>>>> >>>>> Happy easter to everyone! >>>>> >>>>> Philipp. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Víctor Rodríguez-Doncel >>>> D3205 - Ontology Engineering Group (OEG) >>>> Departamento de Inteligencia Artificial >>>> ETS de Ingenieros Informáticos >>>> Universidad Politécnica de Madrid >>>> >>>> Campus de Montegancedo s/n >>>> Boadilla del Monte-28660 Madrid, Spain >>>> Tel. (+34) 91336 3753 >>>> Skype: vroddon3 >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano >>> AG Semantic Computing >>> Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) >>> Universität Bielefeld >>> >>> Tel: +49 521 106 12249 >>> Fax: +49 521 106 6560 >>> Mail:cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de >>> >>> Office CITEC-2.307 >>> Universitätsstr. 21-25 >>> 33615 Bielefeld, NRW >>> Germany >> >> >> > -- -- Prof. Dr. Philipp Cimiano AG Semantic Computing Exzellenzcluster für Cognitive Interaction Technology (CITEC) Universität Bielefeld Tel: +49 521 106 12249 Fax: +49 521 106 6560 Mail: cimiano@cit-ec.uni-bielefeld.de Office CITEC-2.307 Universitätsstr. 21-25 33615 Bielefeld, NRW Germany
Received on Wednesday, 8 April 2015 08:24:06 UTC