Re: [bidi] BIDI?

Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin wrote: "To my taste, first strong in the domain 
name is best".
First strong in the domain name fails the napkin test. If the logical name 
is (upper case = RTL):
      MY.DOMAIN.org
it would be displayed
      org.NIAMOD.YM

Such a display could come from the logical name "MY.DOMAIN.org", but also 
from "org.MY.DOMAIN", thus it is not unambiguous.


Shalom (Regards),  Mati



From:   "Aharon (Vladimir) Lanin" <aharon@google.com>
To:     Matitiahu Allouche/Israel/IBM@IBMIL
Cc:     Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>, bidi@unicode.org, 
bidi-bounce@unicode.org, "public-iri@w3.org" <public-iri@w3.org>, Mohamed 
Mohie <MOHIEM@eg.ibm.com>, public-iri-request@w3.org, Mark Davis ☕ 
<mark@macchiato.com>
Date:   05/06/2011 18:43
Subject:        Re: [bidi] Re: BIDI?



I think that there needs to be a secondary objective: to get all-rtl iris 
displayed rtl overall, not in a constant back-and-forth at every 
separator. Like Mohammed, I think that this should be based on the 
presence of rtl in the domain name. To my taste, first strong in the 
domain name is best, but I think that the exact algorithm to use (on the 
domain name) is less important.
Aharon
On Jun 5, 2011 10:27 AM, "Matitiahu Allouche" <matial@il.ibm.com> wrote:
> Please define "mostly Latin" and "mostly Arabic or Hebrew".
> 
> Are you suggesting to count LTR and RTL characters? Are they all equally 

> weighted?
> Does the counting include the scheme (e.g. "http")? the TLD?
> 
> Please consider that the prime objective, IMHO, is to enable easy and 
> unambiguous human translation from a displayed IRI (napkin, bus side) to 

> the corresponding logical string.
> 
> Shalom (Regards), Mati
> Bidi Architect
> Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
> IBM Israel
> Fax: +972 2 5870333 Mobile: +972 52 2554160
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Mohamed Mohie <MOHIEM@eg.ibm.com>
> To: Matitiahu Allouche/Israel/IBM@IBMIL
> Cc: bidi@unicode.org, bidi-bounce@unicode.org, Mark Davis ☕ 
> <mark@macchiato.com>, "public-iri@w3.org" <public-iri@w3.org>, Shawn 
> Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
> Date: 03/06/2011 22:06
> Subject: Re: [bidi] Re: BIDI?
> Sent by: public-iri-request@w3.org
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Mati,
> To overcome the problem you highlighted below I have a suggestion to be
> added for the URL design which is to set the embedding level according 
to
> the directionality of the domain name.
> 1- If the domain name "MY.OWN.DOMAIN" is mostly Latin set the embedding
> level to even.
> 2- If the domain name "MY.OWN.DOMAIN" is mostly Arabic or Hebrew set the
> embedding level to odd.
> 
> Thanks And Best regards,
> Mohamed Mohie , PMP®
> ________________________________________________
> GCoC BIDI ,
> Advisory Software Engineer, Project Manager, M.Sc.
> Cairo Technology Development Center (CTDC)
> IBM Egypt
> email : mohiem@eg.ibm.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Matitiahu Allouche <matial@il.ibm.com>
> To: Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com>
> Cc: bidi@unicode.org, bidi-bounce@unicode.org, "public-iri@w3.org"
> <public-iri@w3.org>, Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
> Date: 27/04/2011 10:38 ص
> Subject: [bidi] Re: BIDI?
> Sent by: bidi-bounce@unicode.org
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, Mark!
> 
> I am glad to see somebody daring to tackle this issue.
> 
> You wrote: <quote>
> If a bidiIri is recognized, then it is handled by the UBA as if each
> separator is surrounded by:
> LRM (if the embedding level is even) or
> RLM (if the embedding level is odd)
> <end of quote>
> 
> This design has the following consequences, which IMHO are not optimal:
> a) The same URL (IRI) will be displayed differently according to the
> embedding level. This is confusing.
> b) Pure Latin-character URLs will be displayed in a new and strange way
> when the embedding level is odd. For instance, "htttp://docs.google.com"
> will be displayed as "com.google.docs//:http".
> 
> Consequently, I second Slim Amamou's suggestion to "have a
> predefined/enforced directionality in the specs for each scheme? (ex. 
LTR
> for URLs)".
> It is true that pure or mostly Hebrew or Arabic URLs will be displayed 
in 
> a
> way which may seem strange. For instance, "http://MY.OWN.DOMAIN.com" 
> (where
> upper case letters represent RTL letters) will be displayed as "
> http://YM.NWO.NIAMOD.com", but
> 1. The scheme and the TLD currently are pure LTR, and I guess that this 
is
> not going to change soon, so the display of mixed LTR/RTL URLs will be
> strange anyway.
> 2. The use of domain names with RTL labels is still scarce, there is no
> common usage to overcome, so the public will get accustomed to the
> "strange" display right from the beginning.
> 
> 
> Shalom (Regards), Mati
> Bidi Architect
> Globalization Center Of Competency - Bidirectional Scripts
> IBM Israel
> Fax: +972 2 5870333 Mobile: +972 52 2554160
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Mark Davis ☕ <mark@macchiato.com>
> To: Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
> Cc: "public-iri@w3.org" <public-iri@w3.org>, bidi@unicode.org
> Date: 27/04/2011 02:24
> Subject: [bidi] Re: BIDI?
> Sent by: bidi-bounce@unicode.org
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some rough thoughts on how we could handle bidi IRIs.
> 
> http://goo.gl/QwSoo

> 
> Feedback is welcome.
> 
> Mark
> 
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 23:20, Shawn Steele <Shawn.Steele@microsoft.com>
> wrote:
> I'm wondering what the current thinking around BIDI IRIs is? A few 
things
> in draft-ietf-iri-3987bis-05 jump out at me.
> 
> 
> -Shawn>