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Non-payments use cases (was Re: Roll call / intro - expand the scope of Interledger Protocol to beyond payment)

From: Adrian Hope-Bailie <adrian@hopebailie.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2015 17:46:21 +0200
Message-ID: <CA+eFz_JKmCXq=wKvDnxpBqd69BtrwAPpyRgeA3FCjiGehoNokA@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nitin Gaur <ngaur@us.ibm.com>
Cc: Bob Way <bob@ripple.com>, Ryan Fugger <arv@ryanfugger.com>, Interledger Community Group <public-interledger@w3.org>
Hi all,


*Sidenote: Please start a new thread if you're going to discuss something
that's off topic of the current thread. W3C mail archives are nicely
threaded which helps readers follow conversations more easily. You also
risk your emails being missed by the group because their email clients
display threads in a particular way.*

There is a page on the wiki for us to capture use cases we are interested
in exploring. Today it only contains payments use cases because that is the
background that ILP comes from.

https://github.com/interledger/five-bells-demo/wiki/Use-Cases

If there are use cases anyone in the group would like to explore beyond
payments please log the use case there and provide some details on how you
think ILP might be used to implement that case.

Personally I'd be delighted if we find ways for ILP to be useful for
non-payments use cases as that will only grow it's adoption and increase
the chance of it becoming a widely used standard.

That said, the protocol was designed to facilitate payments (even though
those may be done using any asset) and it's not clear to me how ILP might
be useful for other use cases, so I hope this won't fundamentally alter
what ILP is or compromise it's design.

Adrian

On 14 December 2015 at 09:23, Nitin Gaur <ngaur@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Sure Bob.
>  so while I work for IBM, I wanted to keep IBMs interest independent ( and
> at Bay) and more community/ensuing blockchain adoption related topics .
>
> I am in Australia on several workshops, I will send some of the ideas,
> when I return.
>  Thanks for support
>
> N
>
> :)
> Nitin Gaur
> IBM Blockchain Labs
> 512-789-5300
>
> -----Bob Way <bob@ripple.com> wrote: -----
> To: Nitin Gaur/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> From: Bob Way <bob@ripple.com>
> Date: 12/11/2015 10:35AM
> Cc: Ryan Fugger <arv@ryanfugger.com>, Interledger Community Group <
> public-interledger@w3.org>, Adrian Hope-Bailie <adrian@hopebailie.com>
> Subject: Re: Roll call / intro - expand the scope of Interledger Protocol
> to beyond payment
>
> I’ll let Adrian arrange the community call time and mechanism, but I can
> join either before or after the holidays.
>
> Based on what (admittedly little) I know about IBM’s interest in
> blockchain based ledgers, I think they have to potential to connect very
> nicely with into the ILP ecosystem.
>
> However, prior to our call, would you consider kicking off a thread here
> introducing some of your ideas about how blockchain based ledgers can be
> applied to the areas you mentioned?
>
> I’ve brainstormed things like web content access, delivering digital
> goods, title transfer and stock transfer. But I’d like to know more about
> the processes for Mortgage initialization, Mortgage securitization, and Car
> loan payments that could be automated or optimized.
> However, I think it would be useful
>
>
> Bob Way
>
> Software Engineer | Ripple
> bob@ripple.com <ben@ripple.com> | ripple.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 11, 2015, at 1:19 AM, Nitin Gaur <ngaur@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Team
> Thanks for an rich discussion and while I have read every email/post on
> this I have been heads down on Multi client Blockchain project
>
> The idea of the email was to gauge interest and make this a topic for our
> first community call,  followed by a workshop in 2016.
>
> Adrian/Bob --- when do U suggest we have this call -- prior to Holidays or
> first thing in Jan 2016.
>
> pls advise
>
> N
>
>
> :)
> Nitin Gaur
> IBM Blockchain Labs
> 512-789-5300
>
> -----Ryan Fugger <arv@ryanfugger.com> wrote: -----
> To: Bob Way <bob@ripple.com>
> From: Ryan Fugger <arv@ryanfugger.com>
> Date: 12/03/2015 01:28PM
> Cc: Nitin Gaur/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, Interledger Community Group <
> public-interledger@w3.org>
> Subject: Re: Roll call / intro - expand the scope of Interledger Protocol
> to beyond payment
>
> Good example, Bob.  That definitely shows how flexible ILP should be.  Can
> we think of examples that actually do change things from an ILP
> perspective?  *Those* are the ones I think we really need to discuss how to
> handle, or at least make an informed decision not to handle at this time...
>
> What about payment reversibility?  Maybe that's something we should talk
> about, at least to make sure that whatever arrangements ledgers and/or
> connectors want to make for reversibility at a level above ILP's settlement
> layer are possible.
>
> We might also talk about scenarios where it might be useful to have the
> transaction notaries trigger release of escrowed funds only once the other
> half of the transaction (ie, delivery of goods or services) has been
> successfully completed, and whether that would have any impact on the ILP
> design.  I guess that's a generalization of Bob's example where the goods
> to be delivered are tokenized into an ILP ledger, but it could expand to be
> much broader, with notaries connected to shipping companies, as one example.
>
> What else?
>
> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Bob Way <bob@ripple.com> wrote:
>
>> I’d like to give a big +1 to discussing this.
>>
>> Payments don’t really happen in a vacuum. If Alice send money to Bob,
>> then she did so for a reason.
>> Bob clearly benefited from receiving the payment. Alice clearly incurred
>> cost by sending the payment.
>> What generally goes unmentioned is that Alice likely received a benefit
>> out-of-band from the traditional payment system.
>> Likewise, Bob likely incurred some cost/expense (maybe it was goods sold)
>> out-of-band as well.
>>
>> In many types of transactions, it is possible to include these formerly
>> out-of-band transactions into a single ILP “circular” payment. Stock
>> transfer and digital goods sales spring immediately to mind.
>>
>> So as example, Alice has USD and wants to own a share of AAPL stock. A
>> clever bit of pathfinding could create a circular ILP payment that 1)
>> debited Alice’s USD on her bank’s ledger, and as part of the same
>> transaction, 2) credited Alice’s account on the AAPL stock custodian’s
>> ledger. To make this possible some third party (Bob) is essentially
>> swapping with Alice. Bob’s bank account gets credited, and his stock
>> accounted debited.
>>
>> Nothing really changes from an ILP perspective. Both the core banking
>> systems and stock custodian’s systems are ILP “ledgers”. Both Alice and Bob
>> in effect serve as ILP “connectors”.
>>
>> Bob Way
>>
>> Software Engineer | Ripple
>> bob@ripple.com <ben@ripple.com> | ripple.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2015, at 8:27 PM, Nitin Gaur <ngaur@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Folks
>>  My name is Nitin Gaur, I serve as a Director of Blockchain Labs  @IBM.
>>
>> I wanted to float an idea prior to our first cal, where we expand the
>> scope of Interledger Protocol to beyond payments.  The idea is to ensure
>> that we are aware and linking payment activity to other business
>> functions.  Such as Mortgage initialization, Mortgage securitzation, Car
>> loan payment etc. The idea being to explore how blockchain  can be employed
>> in conjunction with other business activity in  Financial services sector.
>>
>> This will also broader the horizon and applicability..linking payment to
>> broader blockchain ecosystem.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> N
>>
>> :)
>> Nitin Gaur
>> IBM Blockchain Labs
>> 512-789-5300
>>
>> -----Forwarded by Nitin Gaur/Austin/IBM on 12/02/2015 10:21PM -----
>>
>> From: Bob Way <bob@ripple.com>
>> Date: 29 October 2015 at 20:52
>> Subject: Re: Roll call / intro
>> To: "public-interledger@w3.org" <public-interledger@w3.org>
>>
>>
>> Hi all. I’m Bob Way. I work with Stefan, Evan and Adrian on the
>> interledger team at Ripple.
>>
>> I ran across Bitcoin pretty early and became a fanboy of the
>> cryptocurrency concept. A couple years later I discovered OpenCoin’s Ripple
>> announcement and became intrigued with the possibilities of transacting in
>> fiat currencies within the framework of a cryptocurrency system.
>>
>> It was during my pre-employment research into OpenCoin’s Ripple system
>> that I discovered Ryan Fugger’s “classic" Ripple Pay system. In fact, I
>> credit my grasp of the “rippling” concept to some patient tutoring from
>> members of Ryan’s community. (Great to meet you Ryan!)
>>
>> Now after two and a half years at Ripple, I’m ecstatic about establishing
>> ILP as a global open standard supporting all types of transactions. I
>> believe ILP can optimize the benefits of social credit, cryptocurrency, and
>> traditional finance by connecting them all into an interoperable web of
>> value.
>>
>> Bob Way
>>
>> Software Engineer | Ripple
>> bob@ripple.com <ben@ripple.com> | ripple.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 21 December 2015 15:46:51 UTC

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