- From: Edward O'Connor <eoconnor@apple.com>
- Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:07:02 -0700
- To: public-indie-ui@w3.org
- Cc: Shawn Henry <shawn@w3.org>
Hi Janina,
You wrote:
> What: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
> When: Wednesday 3 October
The minutes from this week's IndieUI Task Force meeting are available in
HTML at this URL:
http://www.w3.org/2012/10/03-indie-ui-minutes.html
or in plain text below.
CCing Shawn as you were on the call as well as TF members.
Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
03 Oct 2012
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2012/10/03-indie-ui-irc
Attendees
Present
Janina_Sajka, shepazu, hober, Michael_Cooper,
Joseph_Scheuhammer, Andi_Heath, Art_Barstow, Andy_Heath,
Rich, +1.626.841.aaaa, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Shawn,
jcraig, Caroline_Jay
Regrets
Chair
Janina_Sajka
Scribe
hober
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]Admin: Telecon Time Survey
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/20
12Oct/0001.html
2. [5]Admin: IndieUI Overview Page
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/20
12Oct/0002.html
3. [6]admin: WAI IndieUI WG Telecon on 10 October
4. [7]Admin: TPAC; agenda+ Admin: Pointer Events
Submission [See
5. [8]Editor's Draft?
https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/open
6. [9]Use Cases Walk-Through; Continued
http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requi
rements
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 03 October 2012
<janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
<janina> Below]
<scribe> ScribeNick: hober
Admin: Telecon Time Survey
[11]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0001.
html
[11] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0001.html
janina: fyi, we've surveyed about different/rotating telcon
schedule
<clown>
[12]https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/2012_meetings/results
[12] https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/2012_meetings/results
janina: the current schedule is late in the day for europe and
middle of night for asia
... survey is open through tomorrow
... we'll talk it over on the list and on the call
richardschwerdtfe: what sort of conflicts do we have?
janina: [describes global interest]
MichaelC: each of the two times in the survey would gain us one
person who is not currently attending this time
... gain of one person might not be worth it; need more people
to vote
Admin: IndieUI Overview Page
[13]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0002.
html
[13] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0002.html
janina: the education and outreach wai wg maintains overview
pages for each wai activity
<janina>
[14]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct
/0002.html
[14] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0002.html
janina: they've drafted an overview page for the wai indie-ui
wg
... please take a look, check for accuracy, etc.
... audience is non-technical
... should be readily understandable, accurate, and
comprehensive
<janina>
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct
/0002.html
[15] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Oct/0002.html
janina: any questions about this page?
<clown> actual page is here:
[16]http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/IndieUI_Overview
[16] http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/IndieUI_Overview
<shepazu> [17]http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/IndieUI_Overview
[17] http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/IndieUI_Overview
shepazu: could we take a minute now to skim?
janina: yes
richardschwerdtfe: the introduction only talks about device
independent events and not the user context
... could also mention scroll wheel in scrolling example
janina: [introduces Shawn]
<Ryladog> +1 to include AT in Intro
Shawn: we're trying to cover what this is for in the
introduction, and then we talk about each document in the
documents section
... the intro captures the idea, why we're doing this
richardschwerdtfe: in the first sentence, not just a wide range
of devices, but also a wide range of users and the contexts in
which they operate
... could use more of a "command" example like "open", instead
of a device-tied example like "scroll"
... you might have an "open" event, top open a folder, to open
a new row in your document
... or other high-level examples like zoom in, zoom out
shepazu: scroll seems less compelling, it usually has a lot of
existing affordances
Shawn: for either zoom or open, what would the sentence be
like?
<andy> hoper - sorry - just saw this - I suggested "wide range
of user needs and devices"
richardschwerdtfe: "a user operating a web application may wish
to open a folder using a broad range of device commands such as
a gesture, a voice command, etc. Indie-UI allows the device to
send a simple 'open' event to the application regardless of how
the user signaled..."
... in both the intro and the documents section
Shawn: would this be an additional example or replacing the
existing one?
shepazu: combine the two
... [expands on that]
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to suggest escape/dismiss example
and to say "open" will be too easily confused with "click"
<Ryladog> Better to use the word 'Context' (as Rich suggests)
with (use needs, preferences, access device) in parans after
it. Example: 'Context' (as Rich suggests) with (use needs,
preferences, access device)
jcraig: wordsmithing is probably not the best use of telcon
time
<Ryladog> Soory, somehow I muted myself
jcraig: rich's example of open could also be confused by users,
like scroll
<Ryladog> Zakim unmute me
jcraig: we could use an escape or dismiss gesture
... lots of people capture ESC key
Ryladog: the word 'context' as rich suggested is key
... important to make this broader, and 'context' does that
Shawn: scroll seems so much stronger for novices
... could you say the same sort of thing for escape or dismiss?
janina: we're not sure what to call it, so it might not be a
good example
... zoom is also common, like scroll
Shawn: do you want me to draft wording for zoom?
... is it ok to put out a draft of this with scroll?
shepazu: that's fine
janina: you can send it to the mailing list
clown: if we want to replace the scroll event example, we could
use a checkbox
... [describes various ways of toggling a checkbox]
jcraig: checkbox is already covered by click events
... scroll is fine for now, zoom too
<Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to suggest a checkbox as
a very concrete case.
jcraig: some examples of escape or dismiss: kbd ESC, voice over
has a gesture, android has a back button
andy: re: the "indie ui: user context" paragraph, user settings
is too narrow, maybe 'preferences' would be better?
Shawn: we could swap them around, would decouple it from AT
andy: the word 'settings' doesn't say what sort of settings
shepazu: can we wordsmith over email?
janina: i think we should
Shawn: will try to get an email out today
admin: WAI IndieUI WG Telecon on 10 October
janina: those of you who are in the wai wg, we have a brief
telcon next week
... for administrative topics
... re: TPAC, our agenda is on our wiki page
<MichaelC> [18]IndieUI TPAC 2012 meeting page
[18] http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2012
Admin: TPAC; agenda+ Admin: Pointer Events Submission [See
janina: we've had a submission; ac is considering it
ArtB: web events wg welcomes the submission
... if we assume the wg gets created, it affects some web
events work
... and our participation in indi-ui tf
... web events will continue working on the touch events v1
... to CR
... we will stop work on touch events v2
... instead we'll work with pointer events wg
... once touch events v1 rec is published, web events wg will
close
... so how do web events participants continue participating in
this tf?
... most straightforward way would be to ask web events folks
to join the wai wg
shepazu: [talks about the pointer events model; prefers it to
the touch events model]
... if web events shuts down, don't know what that will mean
wrt my involvement in this tf
MichaelC: if that happens, should this tf become joint with
pointer events wg?
shepazu: no
... they want to be very focused, don't want to veer off on
high-level events
janina: how does the pointer events model handle multiple
finger events?
shepazu: it doesn't do gestures, it does multiple fingers
<Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask how pointer events will
handle multip-finger touch events
ArtB: we should keep pointer events really narrowly scoped
MichaelC: web events wg participants in this tf are invited to
join the wai indie-ui tf
janina: AC voting goes on through the 25th
... not a done deal yet
MichaelC: 4 or 5 people would be affected
Editor's Draft? [19]https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/open
[19] https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/open
janina: jcraig, let's have a regular check-in; any updates on
the draft?
jcraig: working through the open issues as i have time
<jcraig> action-5?
<trackbot> ACTION-5 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to author draft spec.
change for james craig to include place holders for agreed upon
events today in -- due 2012-08-29 -- OPEN
<trackbot> [20]http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/5
[20] http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/5
jcraig: there's one action item on joseph
clown: can close it or assign it to jcraig:
janina: any questions?
Use Cases Walk-Through; Continued
[21]http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
[21] http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements
janina: we should focus a significant amount of time at tpac on
use cases
richardschwerdtfe: pick back up at use case 6
<richardschwerdtfe>
[22]http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requiremen
ts#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_
to_the_next_focusable_item_within_a_UI_component
[22] http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_to_the_next_focusable_item_within_a_UI_component
<clown>
[23]http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requiremen
ts#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_
to_the_next_focusable_item_within_a_UI_component
[23] http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Use_Cases_and_Requirements#S6:_Command_move_the_focus_point_within_a_UI_component_down_to_the_next_focusable_item_within_a_UI_component
richardschwerdtfe: if you're in a widget and want to move down
in the widget, could have a command for that
jcraig: do we already have something like this?
... it says "move down to the next *focusable* item" instead of
just "the next item"
... basically the equivalent of TAB or Shift-TAB
richardschwerdtfe: what terminology would be better?
jcraig: we could just remove the word "focusable"
richardschwerdtfe: if you have a list box, going to each of the
items
jcraig: following para might need some wordsmithing, or a note
that says this isn't the same as TAB/Shift-TAB
richardschwerdtfe: maybe "within a ui component"?
janina: isn't this about local navigation? "local next"/"local
previous"
<Ryladog> FYI........Many User cases in this doc have the typo
"supports supports" in the first sentence
jcraig: let's start by taking the word "focusable" out and go
from there
<Ryladog> +1 remove word Focus
richardschwerdtfe: do we need an action item to get this into
the spec?
jcraig: i think the use cases are clear; we should keep working
on them in the wiki
... some of them are already covered, some aren't
... i will do a comparison with the spec
... use case 7 also needs that same change
clown: it shouldn't be down/up, it should be next/previous
... set of items, there's a next/prev relative to where you are
richardschwerdtfe: left & right v. up & down, we need this
separate for two-dimensional widgets
Ryladog: also 3D
janina: we decided to put 3D off
clown: in grid, next/prev in row, next/prev in col
richardschwerdtfe: what about a flow diagram?
clown: suppose you have a tree like OS X's Finder
... could be rendered on an iPhone as swiping left/right
... still a tree
... shouldn't be tied to the rendering
<Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to suggest next/previous
instead of up/down
janina: agree with clown
Ryladog: for the moment, yes
richardschwerdtfe: how about "in a horizontal direction, next
and previous"?
Caroline_Jay: i think this important for grid widgets like date
pickers
... i tend to agree with clown
jcraig: use case 6 through 9 are all in this "linear
directional navigation" context
... clown had the right idea, this is a general next/previous
... visual left/right is locale dependent
<Ryladog> what about vertical languages?
jcraig: "general next" and "general previous", which might be
left/right in ltr languages
... grids might need special directional navigation events
... once you're in a managed focus widget like a grid or a
tree, then the next/prev is like "change selected value"
... need to indicate that there's a multi-dimensional value
change
<Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention s8 and s9. I like
Joseph's idea of vertical vs linear
richardschwerdtfe: you might be moving in increments?
jcraig: something like a slider, next notch in slider is
incrementing the value of the slider
... but tree widgets have a selection state; current use case
for incrementing slider may also apply for these sorts of cases
... we should focus on the primary next/previous instead of
left/right
... would be good to have special-cased "vertical
next/previous"
... vertical v. linear
andy: isn't this just like tab order anyway?
<clown> "it's"
andy: the case for general next/previous within some order
... what does next/previous mean in a tree with unordered
subnodes
... next/prev gets parameter that varies depending on the kind
of object
Ryladog: definitely don't use right/left due to vertical and
rtl languages
richardschwerdtfe: we've agreed on a next and previous; should
i separate out vertical and horizontal?
jcraig: i'll send an email to the list
janina: yes, let's do this on the list
jcraig: it's possible that this is just covered by focus events
... we can have a separate at focus (point of regard focus)
different from the kbd focus
... then we don't need next/prev, we just alert the app "this
is the item i'm on"
Ryladog: richardschwerdtfe, there's diagonal too
richardschwerdtfe: they had directional work in SVG 1.2 tiny,
could look at that
janina: let's try to figure out how to group these for better
tpac time
... next meeting in 2 weeks, wai wg in 1 week
RRSAgent: make logs public
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
Received on Wednesday, 3 October 2012 18:07:55 UTC