Re: Modules split

On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 22:30 Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 9:16 PM Klaus Weidner <klausw@google.com> wrote:
>
>> Some background is here:
>> https://github.com/immersive-web/administrivia/blob/master/modules.md
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_administrivia_blob_master_modules.md&d=DwMFaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=WH7hWc1wkZyx2EkLLT5uyVuSxUV8sSaBgeDEGOVTROY&s=Mp8hiEPyOsb1ZkIDeHcfXNSSf1ikN2rS-2J-HRH0pZ0&e=>
>>
>
> I see. It wasn't clear that the AR enum was going to be broken out and I
> don't remember that that particular part was ever discussed.
>
> There's no real reason to remove "immersive-ar" from the spec so can we
> leave it in? The parts that are still up in the air can still go in the
> 'AR' spec.
>

I'm not one of the spec editors, but is this really a blocking issue? The
spec already says that *"Future specifications or modules may expand the
definition of immersive session include additional session modes"*, and I
think the initial AR module draft is starting imminently. Presumably the
browser police won't be confiscating headsets for non-compliance if they
implement a mode from a pending draft module that isn't in the draft core
spec?


> I was only tangentially involved in the modules discussion, but my
>> understanding is that the net result of using the core spec + AR module
>> would be roughly equivalent to the pre-split combined spec, and I don't
>> think there would be any new requirement to implement VR in such a
>> combination. I expect that a compliant implementation can still reject
>> supportsSession and requestSession promises for unsupported modes, after
>> all it also does this if a user doesn't consent to a session or if a given
>> system doesn't have the right hardware.
>>
>
> So a browser that just implements 'supportsSession' and 'requestSession'
> and always rejects them, would be compliant? :-)
>

Yep, just like a browser can be compliant in supporting the Gamepad API
even when an uncooperative user doesn't attach any, so it returns zero of
them.

For WebXR the situation is a bit better, a browser can easily support
"inline" mode on a computer with no VR/AR hardware, but other modes depend
on hardware and driver availability.


>
>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 20:53 Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 8:38 PM Klaus Weidner <klausw@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "immersive-ar" isn't going away, its definition is just moving from the
>>>> core spec to a separate AR module which adds it back.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Why would you do that?
>>> By removing this, we can no longer make a compliant implementation since
>>> we disallow 'immersive-vr'.
>>>
>>> Do you know when this removal was discussed? We don't want to be
>>> automatically opted into VR experiences because they look out of place in
>>> an AR headset.
>>>
>>>
>>>> FWIW, I think it would be nice if there were a way to generate a
>>>> combined spec that includes major modules for easier reference in one
>>>> place, as opposed to the GL extension approach of core plus incremental
>>>> patches, but that's a usability/tooling issue separate from the
>>>> modularization itself.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suspect that that won't be possible. Looking at CSS, there's so much
>>> overhead in updating specs (authors need to be reponsive, group has to
>>> vote, W3C needs publish, etc) that the style and tooling changes over time.
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019, 20:11 Rik Cabanier <rcabanier@magicleap.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When was it decided that "immersive-ar" was going to be removed from
>>>>> the spec? Did I miss something during a weekly call? I searched the IRC
>>>>> logs but couldn't find anything.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can this enum please be re-added? Otherwise this spec is useless for
>>>>> AR devices such as Hololens or Magic Leap. We already ship a version of
>>>>> WebXR with this enum and three.js supports it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 2, 2019 at 5:39 PM Waliczek, Nell <nhw@amazon.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The two PRs in the WebXR repo have now been merged.  With this, the
>>>>>> WebXR spec is ready for a new Working Draft to be published.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will be merging the two remaining PRs into their respective repos by
>>>>>> end of business day (Pacific time) on Wednesday August 7th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *From: *"Waliczek, Nell" <nhw@amazon.com>
>>>>>> *Date: *Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 3:57 PM
>>>>>> *To: *"public-immersive-web-wg@w3.org" <
>>>>>> public-immersive-web-wg@w3.org>
>>>>>> *Subject: *Modules split
>>>>>> *Resent-From: *<public-immersive-web-wg@w3.org>
>>>>>> *Resent-Date: *Wednesday, July 31, 2019 at 3:56 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Working Group folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you’re following the WebXR repo, you may have noticed several PRs
>>>>>> to separate the existing specification into the agreed upon modules.  If
>>>>>> not, this email is intended to give you a heads up that the split is
>>>>>> underway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *tl;dr *A bunch of spec text, explainer text, and issues are about
>>>>>> to move between repos as part of the modules split.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Details*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Once the two PRs in the WebXR repo have merged, we will be cutting a
>>>>>> new Working Draft that will be sent for wide review (PING, TAG,
>>>>>> Accessibility, Internationalization, etc.)  To keep things moving along,
>>>>>> I’m aiming to merge these two PRs by the end of business day (Pacific time)
>>>>>> on Friday August 2nd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Separately, once the PR in the new webxr-gamepads-module repo has
>>>>>> been merged, we will cut the first Working Draft and also send it for wide
>>>>>> review.  At this time, we are not yet intending to publish a Working Draft
>>>>>> from the webxr-ar-module repo.  However, in both cases, I am aiming to
>>>>>> merge these two PRs by end of business day (Pacific time) on Wednesday
>>>>>> August 7th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Removals from WebXR
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/782
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr_pull_782&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=oOld63A2HmXgF29yfElOBFfu10N898Yb0X0TZo10mBc&e=>
>>>>>> – Gamepad module stuff
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/pull/784
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr_pull_784&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=FaUj4mD5NlYT2yVXlp8M7NTmrzv-CRLYbID9M8LEKH0&e=>
>>>>>> – AR module stuff
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New Gamepad module
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr-gamepads-module/pull/1
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr-2Dgamepads-2Dmodule_pull_1&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=qoCoqeGoIAQ0Lk36_YZEkxnIafRrP8MD1DXXG4jJqVg&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New Augmented Reality module
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr-ar-module/pull/1
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr-2Dar-2Dmodule_pull_1&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=mx4-L2vrNOtaDEewSWh1ZY4usksicEjKwdGuGr7MPFo&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lastly, Brandon and I have gone through all the existing issues in
>>>>>> the WebXR repo and added labels indicating if they should be moved to new
>>>>>> repos.  If you have concerns about whether or not an issue is tagged
>>>>>> inappropriately, please comment directly on the issue using the “/agenda”
>>>>>> tag and we can discuss in the next WG meeting.  I will be moving all
>>>>>> non-contentious issues with the following labels during the day on Thursday
>>>>>> August 8th.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/labels/gamepad-module
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr_labels_gamepad-2Dmodule&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=cO-R-daiT1_nmqxDLYLsCT7PaJu4vJ3eOXDRvatUlZg&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/labels/ar-module
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr_labels_ar-2Dmodule&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=IjcLnJbCEt6MG5VliV8p0t0B0EbHjCZDGK548Yyvf1Y&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/labels/input-profiles
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr_labels_input-2Dprofiles&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=GyhcQG9v_9syzd9oBQ7SwOFd5aruHZ_avVZma2M6FvM&e=>
>>>>>>  (the repo is currently named xr-gamepad-mappings)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://github.com/immersive-web/webxr/labels/layers-module
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_immersive-2Dweb_webxr_labels_layers-2Dmodule&d=DwMGaQ&c=0ia8zh_eZtQM1JEjWgVLZg&r=jahSgznxrAL5kPgsRvs7bhKUEd9M5X0d-NE2WJg7VT0&m=gW_F_X3uaNn0W7TURDCawHfvXBlgvtmL_7_GjDrWEAI&s=7OFxtBT_DmiXWFNfPLYZ1ArdvEHuznT8jn6gpqU8Tc0&e=>
>>>>>>  (not officially a module yet)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking forward to getting to the next Working Drafts published!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nell
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>