[minutes] 2020-10-06 IDCG meeting

> On 5 Oct 2020, at 09:14 , Léonie Watson <lwatson@tetralogical.com> wrote:
> 
> Day: Tuesday 6 October.
> Time: 2PM UTC.
> 
> Agenda:
> 
> agenda+ Actions review:
> https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues
> 
> agenda+ BLM statement next steps.
> 
> agenda+ Other business
> 
> Léonie.
> 
> -- 
> Director @TetraLogical
> https://tetralogical.com

Hi all,

The minutes of today’s IDCG meeting are available:
  https://www.w3.org/2020/10/06-idcg-minutes.html

Text snapshot:
==============
                              IDCG meeting
                            06 October 2020

   [2]IRC log.
      [2] https://www.w3.org/2020/10/06-idcg-irc

Attendees
   Present
          annette_g, Barb, Coralie, Dan, hober, Jeff, Judy,
          Léonie, Tzviya, wendyreid
   Regrets
          wseltzer, Rhian
   Chair
          Léonie
   Scribe
          koalie

Contents
    1. [3]Actions review https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues
    2. [4]joint meeting next week with PWE - agenda ideation
    3. [5]BLM statement next steps

Meeting minutes

  Actions review [6]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues

      [6] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues

   Leonie: 22 open actions

   <tzviya> [7]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/28

      [7] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/28

   Leonie: I'd like to discuss the issue that suggests some pledge
   for AC reps to sign to

   [Tzviya reads aloud issue #28]

   [8]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18

      [8] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18

   Leonie: Jeff, is there anyone on team we could ask to reach out
   to

   Leonie: have we got any sense of what the fee structure would
   look like for Africa?

   Jeff: we try to reach for fair due
   … we have a formula for small companies in lower-income
   countries
   … using world bank
   … less than 1k, less then 2k, etc.
   … there's already a fee structure
   … but has not attracted sufficient interest
   … so we're looking at other techniques as well

   Dan: I think it would be a mistake to focus only on
   geographical diversity

   Dan: Léonie mentioned Nigeria having a startup culture
   … I know people and can talk to them to see whether there are
   connections there

   Barb: I agree it should not be geographic
   … I may have connections too

   Leonie: agreed and thanks for possible connections
   … we might want to put our thinking on how we can enable
   participation by organization

   ====

   [9]Create nomination guidance #18

      [9] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18

   Leonie: aim is to enable more diverse participation
   … this has come up in a number of other issues
   … what can we do to encourage AC reps to send a more diverse
   set of participants?
   … Dan, any ideas you could share?

   Dan: I think the question is how do we encourage AC reps and
   the orgs they represent create career paths for engineers
   … and opening those to engineers for whom participating in W3C
   might be a good idea

   Dan: in a way where companies could go back to their statement
   in a year or so and see progress

   Jeff: Kim told us we need to drive action

   Jeff: what would it mean to drive action? start with numbers
   and targets
   … we have about 12K in CGs and several thousands in WGs
   … a portion of those are in the US (say 4 to 5K)
   … our target would be to get 400 black participants only in the
   US, and at least 50 in WG
   … that's 1/10th
   … if you go global, as this is a global problem, the target
   needs to be bigger
   … when you look at the target, you realise that we can't do it
   at W3C without the involvemet of W3C members
   … we need the AC reps on these calls
   … it's not just who they nominate
   … if we don't make this an imperative in our community, we will
   never drive the kind of results that Kim talked about
   … we'll be more welcoming, sure
   … it means that issue 18 is magnified in my mind on its
   importance

   WendyR: I like all of the ideas mentioned so far
   … i'd like to put the onus on the AC, but maybe we're not
   considering how uninvolved AC reps can be with their org
   … my AC reps is in a different country and business unit and we
   never converse
   … he doesn't present to our company

   Dan: I could say exactly the same thing for mine

   WendyR: I'm sure it's the same for many other orgs and that the
   problem may be bigger is the orgs are big
   … if we put too much of the onus on the orgs, that's putting
   too much work on orgs and AC reps in particular
   … they are not necessarily positioned to do that
   … it doesn't mean we should not help them do this
   … but the AC reps portion should be just a small portion, not
   the whole plan
   … we need to be a little bit more active with companies
   … reach out to them

   Judy: this came up in previous calls as well
   … with regard to racial diversity, W3C should have a statement
   … we should build that into our materials
   … when we talk at conferences about opportunities
   … simple statement, make sure it's part of a consistent message
   to AC reps
   … asking Chairs
   … e.g. if you're looking for an editor
   … make sure you ask who in your group might be good at it and
   needs encouragement
   … think about diversity when you do that
   … somebody suggested a public commitment but let's put people
   first

   Barb: I've been thinking about this for a while, Jeff
   … the structure is interesting
   … you're the CEO, you have AC reps
   … [NFL analogy]
   … they had some challenges on black lives matter
   … chaos was created because not everyone was on the same page
   … The leadership took ownership
   … it's great to have our committees
   … but in the AC, we'd like them to take the pledge
   … we have great Chairs
   … in summary:

   <wendyreid> +1 to chairs being involved

   Barb: this is the beauty of W3C
   … it's also the challenge on tackling the problem.
   … going back to what Kim said:
   … it becomes strategy, a plan
   … are there some AC reps who would be willing to say we could
   do this or that
   … the members trying to tell owners what they should or should
   not do
   … instead, we should bring them into the fold as far as trying
   to figure things out
   … it's the challenge of W3C
   … but any challenge also opens opportunity

   Tzviya: I completely agree with what Barb said
   … AC, grass roots approach, but also
   … perhaps we can help the AC with presentations
   … if people step up and sign a pledge they are willing to help
   improve W3C

   Annette: As an AC rep, it's not too much to ask me to reach out
   to people in my org
   … 2nd point: best thing we can do is try to reach out to some
   black and find out what prevents them from joining
   … so we can remove barriers
   … 3rd point: discount in membership, or direct entry in AC
   meeting, there are ways we could structure things that wouldn't
   be too much of a hit on our finance
   … 4th point: bringing in new membership

   Jeff: going back to WendyR's comment on AC reps who are
   disconnected
   … I'm painfully aware of that
   … it's a problem across the board
   … I'd love to have a problem where W3C together with Members
   add some diversity commitment
   … maybe that will energize AC reps
   … I could envision:
   … some program, fraction of the AC reps who'd feel obligated to
   participate
   … if the program has as an element that the AC reps needs to
   have a conversation with their chief diversity officer
   … that ultimately helps building the program
   … could activate both AC reps, companies.
   … lots of leverage
   … Also, I'd like to remind us that membership is a contract
   between W3C and the organizations
   … as such, we expect Members to contribute as part of whichever
   program we can come up with
   … I don't want to minimize the problem WendyR brought up

   Leonie: to wrap up on this issue
   … and for next steps
   … please add to [10]https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18
   … my other thought: would it be worth sending email to the AC
   to ask them to continue this conversation?
   … invite their perspective

     [10] https://github.com/w3c/idcg/issues/18

   Judy: It's worth thinking about it as an opportunity for the AC
   to take action and for W3C to provide specific
   information/resources/encouragement
   … if it's a two-way thing we're not putting the members in a
   position to be blamed.

   Tzviya: I like Judy's suggestion
   … I think it's premature
   … those active already will happily take it on
   … but without a good outline, we're likely to not succeeed in
   getting more engaged.

   Barb: TPAC is a wonderful experience
   … that's where this group started
   … is there any breakout session or else we could put in place
   this time?
   … I invited my AC rep to a joing session at TPAC, I hope that's
   ok

   Leonie: of course

   Barb: why not host a breakout session?
   … Jeff articulated very well our goals and vision
   … and we could solicit their input to achive these goals and
   vision

   Leonie: +1
   … any volunteer to frame this suggestion?

   Judy: we have a joint meeting already

   Barb: yes, that's a meeting of TPAC, the breakouts are in the
   week of October 26

   Judy: I favour the idea of a breakout session for discussion
   … I think different people would show up
   … I've gotten feedback to save this week for technical topics,
   but this topic is important
   … I wouldn't want to do it solo, but I'd be happy to offer a
   session
   … and see who turns up

   Barb: Judy, if you need a partner in crime

   Judy: Thanks!

   Jeff: I'm always willing to talk

   Leonie: Could you share with the CG in advance for comments?

   Judy: will do

  joint meeting next week with PWE - agenda ideation

   Leonie: any topic people here would like to put on the agenda
   of the joint PWECG/IDCG meeting next week?

   Dan: addition/modification to CEPC that could encourage better
   and more inclusive env?
   … that we could add energy into from the D&I perspective

   Judy: traning plan
   … for CEPC

   Leonie: I think we have a few issues on our GH that overlap
   with what PWECG is doing
   … like guides, languages to use
   … I raised one originally for accessibility e.g., "is this OK
   to say that you're blind?"
   … I wonder if there are a couple of issues worth our joint
   discussions
   … Tzviya I'll dig those

   Tzviya: maybe we can discuss what other training people are
   interested in

   Leonie: send your further suggestions in the next day or so in
   e-mail

  BLM statement next steps

   Leonie: we have strong and clear feedback from Kim
   … the Director supported the IDCG recommendation to not publish
   the BLM statement that was reviewed

   Judy: a question that came up after Kim presented: does W3C
   want to do something that is very specific to BLM or
   … do we want to do something broader in some way, or
   deliberately reflective of W3C's global context?
   … there are many ways that conversation went and it wasn't
   resolved
   … we need to figure that out as a group, what w3c wants to
   focus on
   … before we can go back to the statement

   Jeff: Kim said a lot and we each internalised differently what
   she said
   … it may make sense to have a session, even with the PWE folks,
   just to verbalise
   … how we internalised and what we got out of what Kim said
   … she said ours was a weak statement and that it was not going
   to cause any change
   … I focus on the latter part of this, hence my introduction on
   actions earlier in this call
   … deep thinking is required for what we might achieve
   … others might have internalised differently

   Dan: what I took away:
   … this is an all lives matter statment, she said
   … the question on the table for us is do we want W3C to make a
   BLM statement
   … I believe it's important to do so and it sends a strong
   signal
   … but it doesn't obviate us from doing all the important work
   to help with diversity
   … but I do think it would be a fairly constrained piece of work

   <annette_g> +++ to Daniel

   WendyR: I agree with what Dan was saying
   … we should lead with BLM
   … Kim said we're in the rare position where we can influence
   tech
   … for the Web standards org to put out a statement

   <Judy> +++ to Wendy R

   WendyR: and we've put a lot of work already
   … we do need help
   … I'd love it if we could bring Kim in, or find someone else
   … Also, flesh out the other action items

   <tzviya> +1 to wendyreid

   WendyR: some we could make happen pretty quickly
   … I think it would be wrong of us to say all lives matter
   … we need to put a stake in the ground

   Leonie: I agree
   … the challenge is how to help us bring someone to help us to
   that

   <annette_g> +1 for bringing Kim in as a paid consultant if
   she's willing.

   Barb: on the statement, I agree we need to close that out
   … but we need a bigger picture that the AC buys into
   … making sure there's a connection between vision and what
   we're trying to accomplish
   … Also, the CG is more around discussion/ideas, and WG turns
   into implmentation
   … we do think we've matured enough to move our work to a WG?
   … who then has the empowerement to put together documents etc.

   Leonie: I think we may be that
   … you're right, we have to do as well as talk about these
   things

   <Judy> [JB: Specifically liked these two aspects of what Wendy
   R said: "W3C is in a position to have significant influence in
   the tech field"; and, "the tech field has a significant problem
   with anti-black racism". (Wendy, please fix that if I caught it
   wrong.)]

   Leonie: are there any other ways we could bring expertise
   quickly and efficiently?

   Judy: The W3C community has some black participants
   … I'm concerned that they have not felt comfortable joining
   this group

   <Barbara_H> +1

   Judy: I've reached out to some to ask
   … I want to be sure we don't think there aren't any black
   people at W3C
   … My second point was that Kim may be great to work with
   … Ibram Kendi in the Boston area may be a good person too
   … let's try to see if Kim is willing to work with us

   Dan: we have a chicken-and-egg problem
   … about having all white people in this group. We may have more
   diverse representation from our orgs but they’re not here
   because they don’t have the background in w3c. What could we do
   to get around this?


   Dan: let's bring people from the web community who are active
   in racial issues as well
   … that are known for being black technologist
   … let's try to bring them to our next meeting and ask them
   … the feedback we need

   [adjourned till our joint PWECG/IDCG meeting next week, and
   we're back again the following week]


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--
Coralie Mercier  -  W3C Marketing & Communications -  https://www.w3.org
mailto:coralie@w3.org +337 810 795 22 https://www.w3.org/People/Coralie/

Received on Tuesday, 6 October 2020 15:14:39 UTC