- From: siqin <siqin@almas.co.jp>
- Date: Thu, 09 Jul 2015 20:24:24 +0900
- To: "public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org" <public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org>
- CC: 'Behdad Esfahbod' <behdad.esfahbod@gmail.com>
- Message-ID: <559E59E8.1050009@almas.co.jp>
Hi Greg Eck, It is better to add following suffixes in DS05, I think. Dative-Locative Case -------------------------------------------------------------------- <U+202F><U+1832><U+1820><U+182C><U+1822> <U+202F><U+1832><U+1821><U+182C><U+1822> <U+202F><U+1833><U+1824><U+1828><U+1822> <U+202F><U+1833><U+1826><U+1828><U+1822> <U+202F><U+1832><U+1824><U+1828><U+1822> <U+202F><U+1832><U+1826><U+1828><U+1822> Others(?) -------------------------------------------------------------------- <U+202F><U+1833><U+1820><U+182D> <U+202F><U+1833><U+1821><U+182D> <U+202F><U+1833><U+1820> <U+202F><U+1833><U+1821> <U+202F><U+1824><U+1824> <U+202F><U+1826><U+1826> Thanks and Best Regards, siqinbilige. On 2015/07/08 22:30, Greg Eck wrote: > > I have included an initial response to Mr. Jirumutu’s paper entitled > _NNBSP_Model_discussion.pdf_. > > Comments are welcome. > > Also attached: > > DS00 – Standard Mongolian NNBSP Model (as updated) > > DS05 - detailing all known suffixes with NNBSP impact (updated as > requested by Mr. Jirimutu) > > Greg > > *From:* jrmt@almas.co.jp [mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 7, 2015 8:25 PM > *To:* Greg Eck; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org > *Cc:* 'Behdad Esfahbod' > *Subject:* RE: NNBSP-MVS Impact > > Hi Greg Eck, > > Thank you very much for your clarification. > > I understand your explanation for NNBSP status. > > I think there is three direction to select. > > 1.Add some supplementary definition to NNBSP to fit the Mongolian > Encoding requirement. (maybe it is impossible because of the other > languages) > > 2.Replace NNBSP usage in Mongolian with other Mongolian Block > character, as I mentioned for example U+180F > > 3.Bear the restriction of the NNBSP usage and consider to use NNBSP in > Mongolian encoding. > > (We need to persuade each application one by one to fit Mongolian > requirements just like Dr. Quejingzhabu had done with Microsoft) > > Anyone have good idea or solution to resolve the issue ? > > Anyway we need to continue to discuss the model to solve the Mongolian > Suffix Model either use NNBSP or other character. > > Let me send out my NNBSP Model Discussion paper to all members. In the > discussion paper, I have included the NNBSP replacement proposals as well. > > If you do not agree it, just please ignore it and skip into following > discussion contents. > > I am also updated the MVS Model discussion paper and included Greg’s > response as well as my comments in it. > > Please let me know if anyone have any question about it. > > Thanks and Best Regards, > > /Jirimutu/ > > /==========================================================/ > > /Almas Inc./ > > /101-0021 601 Nitto-Bldg, 6-15-11, Soto-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo/ > > /E-Mail: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> Mobile : > 090-6174-6115/ > > /Phone : 03-5688-2081, Fax : 03-5688-2082/ > > /http://www.almas.co.jp/ http://www.compiere-japan.com// > > /==========================================================/ > > *From:*Greg Eck [mailto:greck@postone.net] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 7, 2015 5:57 PM > *To:* public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > *Cc:* 'Behdad Esfahbod' > *Subject:* RE: NNBSP-MVS Impact > > Mr. Jirimutu, > > I am not the one to answer about redefining the NNBSP since it is > defined by the Unicode Consortium. However, in reading the past posts > from Badral and others, it appears that redefinition would be > problematic at this point as it is tied to other languages such as > French and Russian – stabilization would be the issue. *Can someone > else answer this question as stated below?* > > I can represent Dr. Quejingzhabu in his request that upper-level > layout features in MS Word dealing with the NNBSP have been broken for > some time. I think we had a discussion on this at least two years > back. His bug report dealt with word-count across NNBSP-bounded > suffixes, along with CTL-RIGHT/CTL-LEFT word skipping across the same > NNBSP-bounded suffixes. > > Greg > > *Are there other problems that other some of you have found in dealing > with the current implementation of the NNBSP? Let’s see if we can put > together a list of problems found in the current NNBSP implementation …* > > *Spell-checking – Badral* > > *Xxx – Mr. Jirimutu* > > *Word-count – Prof. Quejingzhabu* > > *Word-skip (CTL-RIGHT/LEFT) – Prof. Quejingzhabu* > > *…* > > ** > > *From:*jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> > [mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp] > *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2015 9:17 AM > *To:* Greg Eck; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org > <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > *Cc:* 'Behdad Esfahbod' > *Subject:* RE: NNBSP-MVS Impact > > Hi Greg Eck, > > Thank you very much. I appreciate your attention. > > I will prepare my discussion paper for NNBSP include our AAT > implementation logic. > > We are discussing in our team how to propose for NNBSP. I will send > our discussion paper in one or two days. > > As Mr. Badral’s mail, the NNBSP is the big problem in the Mongolian > Encodings now. > > Before explain our solution of NNBSP on AAT, > > I would like to ask if is it possible to redefine the Suffix Joiner ? > > If it is possible to redefine the Suffix Joiner, I would like to > propose U+180F to be the Mongolian Suffix Joiner. > > That will be pretty on the code structure and simple on the handle. > > If it is impossible to redefine, we have to use NNBSP, I would like to > participate into the discussion. > > Thanks and Best Regards, > > /Jirimutu/ > > /==========================================================/ > > /Almas Inc./ > > /101-0021 601 Nitto-Bldg, 6-15-11, Soto-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo/ > > /E-Mail: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> Mobile : > 090-6174-6115/ > > /Phone : 03-5688-2081, Fax : 03-5688-2082/ > > /http://www.almas.co.jp/ http://www.compiere-japan.com// > > /==========================================================/ > > *From:*Greg Eck [mailto:greck@postone.net] > *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2015 1:17 AM > *To:* jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp>; > public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > *Cc:* 'Behdad Esfahbod' > *Subject:* RE: NNBSP-MVS Impact > > Mr. Jirimutu, > > Thank you for the explanation on AAT’s handling of the character > preceding the MVS. > > Please do let us know how the character preceding the NNBSP is handled > also – that will be very helpful. > > Greg > > *From:*jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> > [mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp] > *Sent:* Monday, July 6, 2015 12:04 AM > *To:* Greg Eck; public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org > <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > *Cc:* 'Behdad Esfahbod' > *Subject:* RE: NNBSP-MVS Impact > > Hi Greg Eck, > > I would like to send my some discussion about the MVS today. > > I will follow up the NNBSP soon if I have any comment. > > *>It would be nice to find out whether Apple rendering systems follow > suit. * > > *>If anyone knows of an Apple engineer that we could ask, * > > *>I will follow up on the matter. Or if there are other rendering > systems >that we should consider, please bring them up.* > > ** > > We created the Apple AAT Font on our site and Apple handle this as an > static machine stream. > > In the case all of the rules we defined working well on Mac OS X and > iOS system. > > The MVS model processing on our AAT font is that > > the string <MONG_INITIAL><MONG_MEDIAL>< MONG_LETTER ><MVS><U+1820 | > U+1821> where MONG is the range U+1820 - U+18AA, > > Our font will tag the MONG_LETTER as <fina> only if the <MONG_LETTER> > is one of <U+1828-n>, <U+182C-n>, <U+182D-g>, > > <U+182E-m>, <U+182F-l>, <U+1830-s>, <U+1831-sh>, <U+1835-j>, > <U+1836-y>, <U+1837-r>, <U+1838-w> as well as > > <U+1823-o>, <U+1824-u>, <U+1825-oe>, <U+1826-ue>. Which Is the > Mongolian MVS requested characters. > > Note: Apple system site had one bug on the Mac OS X 10.8-10.10.2 and > iOS 8.0-8.2 > > rdar://problem/18483089> REGRESSION: iOS8 did not able to correctly > rendering Mongolian vowel separator(180E) > > this bug had been fixed on Mac OS X 10.10.3 and iOS 8.3 now. > > Thanks and Best Regards, > > /Jirimutu/ > > /==========================================================/ > > /Almas Inc./ > > /101-0021 601 Nitto-Bldg, 6-15-11, Soto-Kanda, Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo/ > > /E-Mail: jrmt@almas.co.jp <mailto:jrmt@almas.co.jp> Mobile : > 090-6174-6115/ > > /Phone : 03-5688-2081, Fax : 03-5688-2082/ > > /http://www.almas.co.jp/ http://www.compiere-japan.com// > > /==========================================================/ > > *From:*Greg Eck [mailto:greck@postone.net] > *Sent:* Saturday, July 4, 2015 11:34 PM > *To:* public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org <mailto:public-i18n-mongolian@w3.org> > *Cc:* Behdad Esfahbod > *Subject:* RE: NNBSP-MVS Impact > > Behdad Esfahbod, as the Harfbuzz designer, was kind enough to answer > my questions of how Harfbuzz handles the MVS/NNBSP context. He > confirmed my understanding that Harfbuzz follows the Microsoft > Universal Shaping Engine in the following … *Thank you Behdad* … > > >>>>> > > Given the string <MONG_INITIAL><MONG_MEDIAL>< MONG_LETTER > ><NNBSP><MONG_SUFFIX> where MONG is the range U+1820 - U+18AA, > Harfbuzz applies the <fina> tag applied to MONG_LETTER > > The same processing holds for <MONG_INITIAL><MONG_MEDIAL>< MONG_LETTER > ><MVS><U+1820 | U+1821> > > >>>>> > > *It would be nice to find out whether Apple rendering systems follow > suit. If anyone knows of an Apple engineer that we could ask, I will > follow up on the matter. Or if there are other rendering systems that > we should consider, please bring them up.* > > The DS00 charts have been updated. I am also attaching two files that > have been helpful to me in considering the range of usage of the MVS / > NNBSP. DS04 deals with MVS usage. DS05 deals with NNBSP usage. > *Comments/corrections/questions are welcome.* > > Let’s go on to consider six cases where the MVS/NNBSP affect the > shaping behavior of the character immediately preceeding/following the > MVS/NNBSP – U+1820, U+1828, U+182C, U+182D, U+1835, and U+1836. > > Greg Eck >
Attachments
- application/pdf attachment: DS05_Mongolian_NNBSP_Connected_Suffixes_Others.pdf
Received on Friday, 10 July 2015 09:25:35 UTC