Re: JLRreq TF meeting notes 2023-11-24

Thank you Fuqiao.  I will take a look at clreq/#559 <https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/559>.

These are issues we have with the auto-spacing between CJ and proportional characters. I welcome your comments especially if there are different opinions.
 - Space between Japanese and Western characters: Symbols for footnotes (*†‡◊) [#44 <https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/issues/44>]
 - Space between Japanese and Western characters: Emojis [#43 <https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/issues/43>]
 - Space between Japanese and Western characters: Treatment of combined characters (㌀㎏) [#42 <https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/issues/42>]
 - Space between Japanese and Western characters: Treatment of circled characters [#41 <https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/issues/41>]


These are efforts to come up with a better rule based on the character code. During the discussion at the JLReq TF F2F meeting on 11/24, I gained new insights from comments from layout experts e.g. bin-sensei and Nat, on this matter:
There are always ambiguities and exceptions. Examples of such exceptional cases are such as C++ and Tシャツ, where Latin characters or symbols are a part of a word. These are uncommon (i.e. not sure these cases should be determining factors). Also, there is a class of Unicode characters, e.g. in U+2000 range, that are full-width in CJK fonts and proportional in Latin fonts. Behavior of these characters can change depending on if they are full-width or proportional.
There are examples of unbalanced cases that are established in Japanese printing. One example is “あああ12%あああ”. However there should be a space between Hiragana あ and the number, there is no extra space between the percent sign and Hiragana. It looks unbalanced but the purpose of the auto-spacing is not highlighting a range of text or a word.
Considering these discussions it seems even if we carefully craft a rule, there will always be exceptional cases and complaints. It means we would want ways to override the spacing rule. One idea is add a Unicode character (or CSS property) that is equivalent to the space between CJ and proportional characters. With it people can add, but not remove, spacing when necessary. Another idea is to allow overriding the default rule in CSS by specifying either a pair of characters or by specifying a word.

- kida

> 2023/12/16 10:03、Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>のメール:
> 
> 木田さん、
> 
> On 2023-12-15 09:58, 木田泰夫 wrote:
>> 和欧文字間クラスの再定義
>> CSSで再定義しようとしている。石井さんと私が、Unicode
>> でプロパティとして定義する提案を準備中（12/12
>> [UTCに提出]）。
>>  * todo:
>> 石井さんから提案のデータ内容をチェックし、差異ついて議論を行い（下のissues）フィードバックを行う。
>>  * todo: [spacing
>> property]を約物のアキと漢字・欧文間の空きに分離し、また議論の結果を反映してアップデートする
> 
> We are also discussing 和欧間スペース（漢欧間スペース） in clreq (for example, in https://github.com/w3c/clreq/issues/559). Feel free to ping me if you need our input.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ~xfq
>