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From: Andrzej Zydron <azydron@xml-intl.com>
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 10:50:49 +0100
Message-ID: <42B14B79.6020407@xml-intl.com>
CC: public-i18n-its@w3.org

Hi Felix,

Felix Sasaki wrote:
> Hi Andrej,
> Thanks for the links, I already had a look in the PDF and the PPT before 
> I wrote the mail to you.
>> CAM is not just about NOUN definitions. CAM can define 
>> BusinessUseContext rules, DataValidations, ContentReference rules as 
>> well as Assembly structures. All very powerful and flexible.
> I saw the mechanisms you're mentioning, also the list of predicates you 
> pointed me to. I'm just not sure of the interplay between all these. I 
> also had a look at the CAM specification
> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/5914/OASIS-CAM-Specifications-1_0-RC-017C-021904.doc 
> But it didn't make things clearer to me.

Yes - it is not the most clear documentation in the world!

>> My current understanding (still incomplete) of CAM is that it should 
>> provide a sufficient vocabulary 
> Is it a vocabulary? or rather a set of predicates with some processing 
> directives?

You are correct - it is about predicates and processing instructions

>> to be able to describe semantically the requirements for 
>> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505Translatability, 
>> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505ReqAttrAndTrans, 
>> http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505WordCount and possibly provide a 
>> mechanism for http://esw.w3.org/topic/its0505LimitImpact. It would do 
>> this via an external CAM XML definition document that would be 
>> applicable to a given DTD/XSD type, and/or individual document 
>> instance. This decouples the problem of an ITS tag set for the above 
>> topics from embedding and the intendant problems.
> I'm just worried about the mass of problems CAM seems to try to solve at 
> the same time. Could you come up with an example, as simple as possible? 
> E.g. you have an XHTML document like

This may be the main problem with CAM - its implementation is also 
predicated on the existence of a CAM processor, which may be the main 
mitigating factor against its use. There is a SourceForge site for a 
Java implementation of CAM:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/camprocessor but it is still at alpha 
stage. Without a standard freely available CAM processor, the 
specification is not really usable.

> <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"
> xmlns:its="http://www.example.org/its" xml:lang="en" lang="en"
> its:translate="yes">
> <head><title its:translate="no">World News - 2 May 2005</title>
>  <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/>
> </head>
> <body>
>  <h1 its:translate="no">World News - 2 May 2005</h1> ...
>  <p><its:span lofinfo="this needs special treatment">...</its:span></p>
> </body>
> </html>
> and you want to validate it against an DTD for XHTML, and you have a 
> XSLT stylesheet which relies on a <p> element without child elements 
> from another namespace than "http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml". How would 
> you describe validation and XSLT transformation processes with CAM? It 
> would be great to have such an example, so that we also could use if for 
> the EXTREME article.

Unfortunately my knowledge of CAM is woefully insufficient to be able to 
provide an example!

Best Regards,


> Best, Felix.
>> I need to spend a lot more time with CAM before I could say for 
>> certain whether it would be a viable solution, but there appear to be 
>> some very good things within the CAM specification that are worth 
>> investigating further.
>> Best Regards,
>> AZ
>> Felix Sasaki wrote:
>>> Hi Andrzej,
>>> I had a look at CAM [1] which you talked about yesterday at the 
>>> telecon. It seems to be that it CAM is made for the augmentation of 
>>> schemas with additional information. One kind of information can be 
>>> used to describe the relations of element and attribute names from 
>>> different namespaces to an external knowledge base of names, in the 
>>> CAM terminology "nouns". I'm not sure if that solves our problems, 
>>> for example to avoid impact of ITS on existing markup schemes and 
>>> documents, e.g. problems with XPath etc. What we need is a way to 
>>> describe the relations of markup A from namespace to markup from 
>>> namespace B, to be able to say s.t. "For this processing step,  
>>> IMAGINE that <html:span> is equal to <its:span>." With CAM, this 
>>> seems to be possible through the "nouns" knowledge base, and there 
>>> seems to be no mechanism to process "IMAGINE". Also it seems that 
>>> there is not very much happening in the TC, the spec. was from 2004, 
>>> and i didn't found many implemenations / applications.
>>> I just had a quick look into this, so maybe my impression is wrong 
>>> that this doesn't solve our problems. What do you think? Do you have 
>>> more material?
>>> Best, Felix.
>>> [1] /www.*oasis*-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=*cam*/


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Received on Thursday, 16 June 2005 09:50:56 UTC

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