RE: New FAQ for review: Apache language negotiation set up

Thanks for the comments, Tex.  See below...


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tex Texin [mailto:tex@i18nguy.com] 
> Sent: 17 December 2003 08:37
> To: ishida@w3.org
> Cc: public-i18n-geo@w3.org; 'Vivien Lacourba'
> Subject: Re: New FAQ for review: Apache language negotiation set up
> 
> 
> > http://www.w3.org/International/questions/qa-apache-lang-neg.html
> 
> Here are some editorial comments:
> 
> 1) The question is about setting up files, but the answer is 
> also about configuring apache. The question should be 
> reworded to more accurately reflect the faq content.
> 
> How do I implement language negotiation on an Apache Web 
> server? How do I configure a multilingual web site on an 
> Apache Web server?

Done.

> 
> 2) This question shows the disdavantage of having the 
> background at the end, since the answer seems to start in the 
> middle. A few words of intro would be good to set the stage. 
> Certainly needs something before the discussion of the 
> examples used occurs. It's a long faq, so it might be good to 
> introduce "heres what you need to do" with a brief list of 1) 
> choose file naming convention, 2) associate language with 
> extensions, etc. and then have the individual sections. The 
> list could be links for fast access as well.

I disagree and see it as unnecessary verbosity.  There's a link to the
background information for those who need it.

> 
> 3) Somewhere, maybe not in this faq, we should have a 
> discussion of the tradeoffs of having language indicated in 
> the file name vs. in the directory structure (e.g 
> yadda/yadda/en/index.html)

It's already in the list of future questions:
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/upload/2003/questions/

> 
> 4) You might indicate if this technique only applies to html 
> or works for other filetypes (e.g. image files, css, xml).

Done.


> 
> 5) The comment in the para on language extension first is the 
> files are easier to read or edit when not on a server. 
> Suggest saying why. Do you mean because it ends in .html and 
> so the tool recognizes the extension? Are you saying that 
> tools will find the files even though the language component 
> is not specified? (I dont think so.) It then says always type 
> in browser address or hyperlink without extensions. I don't 
> understand how the browser knows which language to retrieve 
> if the file is not being accessed via an apache server or 
> with http protocol. (ie on local disk as implied) Please explain.
> 
> 6) Subsequent para is that it may make the files harder to 
> read if they are not on an apache server. Pls explain why.  I 
> presume the reason is tools can't default the language extension.

Done 5 & 6


> 
> 7) On naming conventions- we should indicate (maybe another 
> faq) when to use language and when to use language-region 
> (and someday soon language-script-region...) Also which 
> version is the language default (does fr = fr-FR or fr-CA?
> etc.)

For indicating language I don't think there is any default, other than
that fr is a superset of fr-CA, fr-FR, etc..  Aren't you thinking in
terms of locale mechanisms?


> 
> The comment that 3066 should be followed for consistency and 
> recognition is a bit specious. Perhaps say follow it as an 
> industry convention and is consistent with usage as language 
> identifiers in http, html, xml etc. The codes themselves are 
> not always recognizable or consistent. eg ja for language jp 
> for country is inconsistent.

ja and jp is not inconsistent since one refers to language, the other to
country.  There is no reason to expect them to be the same.  I added the
word 'language' to the text.


> 
> 8) You mention AllowOverride being required for .htaccess but 
> not any other permissions or privileges. I think for 
> negotiation to work (but don't know for sure), some other 
> access rights or commands may need to be given. We need to 
> make this very clear. I had a great deal of trouble with my 
> ISP trying to get them to tell me which apache commands I was 
> priv'd to use, and as there were several ways to get it to 
> work, I kept trying things and was never show if I was 
> misapplying the commands, missing some commands or not 
> priv'd. I seem to recall multiview being required.
> 
> Perhaps we should suggest some tests that show privs and 
> validate behavior or example files that demonstrate correct usage.

See separate note.


> 
> 9) Now that user has multiple pages and images etc. for 
> different languages, what is an appropriate test strategy to 
> be sure that the links are going to the right places+languages?

It's already in the list of future questions:
http://www.w3.org/International/geo/upload/2003/questions/


> 
> This might be a good page to put in another language to show 
> proof of concept. Even if it was just translated to pig 
> latin... Or point to some of the other w3c pages that are translated.
> 
> 10) yes pl-PL is better than po.
> 
> 11) Will someone from apach review or sanctify the page? 


Does anyone have any contacts? Martin?

> 
> 12) How does language negotiation interact with user 
> selection of a language via a gateway page? For example, if 
> my browser is Japanese and by default I get the Japanese 
> pages, and then I select another language from the gateway 
> page, once I get to the new language, what happens so that I 
> don't keep getting the default pages? (since the browser will 
> keep specifying Japanese in http) Do we need to clarify this? 
> (maybe separate faq?)

I think the answer is not straighforward.  I think many people dealing
with gateway pages are dealing with whole sites that have been
localised, and probably more often by country than by language.  So my
guess is that they wouldn't really do language negotiation in this way,
rather they would have files in different locations.  I see language
negotiation for expressing *linguistic* variants of single or small
groups of pages.  This is getting into one of the questions you posed
earlier.

Note, however, as stated in the FAQ, that you can always point to a
specific page by specifying something like example.en.html, although as
you say as soon as you follow a link you're likely to revert back to the
language specified in your HTTP settings.

BTW, if we continue this discussion, let's make it a separate thread.

Cheers,
RI

Received on Wednesday, 17 December 2003 12:03:44 UTC