- From: Fuqiao Xue <xfq@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2026 09:13:32 +0800
- To: public-i18n-core@w3.org
- Cc: Andrew Cunningham <lang.support@gmail.com>, Martin J. Dürst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>, "Phillips, Addison" <addison@amazon.com>
Update: They’re reviewing what Richard sent, and are awaiting some survey results and need to integrate those. They will then compose a set of GitHub issues to formalize the remaining questions they have and share them with us (so we can track), and won't attend our meeting today. Fuqiao On 2026-04-09 07:22, Martin J. Dürst wrote: > Hello everybody, > > On 2026-04-08 20:08, Andrew Cunningham wrote: >> On Tue, 7 Apr 2026 at 03:56, Addison Phillips <addisoni18n@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> It would be useful to know what they are actually trying to achieve. >>> Sometimes "removing diacritics" is a naive thing that (for example) >>> English speakers try to do (because, generally speaking, they are >>> affectations in English). > > Exactly. I think many on this list get somewhat confused because of the > word 'diacritics'. My assumption would be that they were looking at a > phenomenon (languages that in their written form have more or less > information, where the form with less information is the 'usual' form, > but the form with more information is helpful in an accessibility > context because it makes it easier for some people to read). The actual > graphical expression of the information was mostly in form of > additional marks, and they then called that 'diacritics' because that's > a word they were familiar with. > > Examples that come to my mind that haven't yet been mentioned: > - Stress marks in Russian (used for learners who don't know on which > syllable the stress is, potentially helpful in an accessibility > context). > - Lengthening marks in Japanese written in Latin (e.g. Taro Sato vs. > Tarō Satō), similar to Hawai'ian. They may help foreigners with a bit > of knowledge of Japanese. > - Ruby in Japanese (these are extremely far from diacritics,... but > nevertheless can be very helpful in accessibility contexts) > > So the main point in the common discussion should be to look at the > purpose. Terminology should to be cleaned up, but that should be > secondary. > > >> I'd assume they are referring to languages that normally aren't >> marked, but >> can be marked for pedagogical reasons or to add clarity. Arabic, >> Lithuanian >> and a range of African languages come to mind. >> >> There are no lists of such languages. It would also have to be >> orthography >> specific not just language specific. >> >> The only language independent way of achieving this that would also >> work >> with any tech stack would be having both versions of the text stored >> and >> switching between them. > > Fully agree. > > Regards, Martin. > >>> The meaning of "diacritic" itself is complex. Some diacritics alter >>> or >>> hint the pronunciation of the base letter. Other diacritics are used >>> to >>> form an entirely different letter. Diacritics are not just used with >>> the >>> Latin script. There is also the tendency to confuse "combining mark" >>> with "diacritic". Without knowing what or why, it's difficult to make >>> progress--and there might be better approaches than removing >>> information >>> from the text. >>> >>> Look forward to the conversation. >>> >>> Addison >>> >>> On 4/6/2026 5:39 AM, Fuqiao Xue wrote: >>>> The WCAG 3 Text & Wording subgroup is defining use of diacritics for >>>> languages "where they are optional". Here's their current >>>> draft/working document for that provision: >>>> >>>> >>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z_Xuava_GS-Fwfk4Hg8KYDr1WcjgcuswKmTELukzvwo/edit?usp=sharing >>>> >>>> >>>> They are asking us to help them on principles or practices that may >>>> guide this work. >>>> >>>> Some of the specific concerns are around: >>>> >>>> 1. Identifying the applicable languages. Is there a list, or >>>> especially some programmatic standard to identify those? >>>> 2. How assistive technology actually handles (or should handle!) >>>> cases >>>> like this. Is requiring the full-diacritic version the right answer? >>>> 3. Expectations around burden/effort. It was brought up that having >>>> both versions in a datastore, and a user-visible toggle, is a big >>>> change. >>>> >>>> They are happy to answer questions, or have a joint call to talk >>>> about >>>> this. >>>> >>>> Any thoughts? >>>> >>> -- >>> Internationalization is not a feature. >>> It is an architecture.
Received on Thursday, 9 April 2026 01:13:33 UTC