- From: Richard Ishida <ishida@w3.org>
- Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:15:29 +0100
- To: "public-i18n-core@w3.org" <public-i18n-core@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-i18n-minutes.html
Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
20 Jul 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jul/0011.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-i18n-irc
Attendees
Present
matial, Addison_Phillips, Richard, Aharon, kojiishi
Regrets
Felix
Chair
Addison Phillips
Scribe
Addison Phillips
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]Agenda
2. [6]Action Items
3. [7]Info Share
4. [8]HTML5 REVIEW
* [9]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
Agenda
Action Items
Info Share
<r12a> [10]http://www.w3.org/International/
[10] http://www.w3.org/International/
<matial> I too have a little bit of info
richard: home page rejigged a little
... MLweb project mentioned
... fixed up quick links
... direct link to tracker
... and to reviews
<r12a> [11]http://www.w3.org/International/html5/qa-personal-names
[11] http://www.w3.org/International/html5/qa-personal-names
richard: working on personal names qa
... started to use HTML5 in article template
... and the link above shows resulting work
... propose to publish in HTML5 in the future
<r12a> [12]http://validator.w3.org/i18n-checker/
[12] http://validator.w3.org/i18n-checker/
richard: just published i18n checker
... more than just new UI
... file upload option
... html5 rules also checked
... not yet xhtml5 and polyglot
<r12a> [13]http://www.w3.org/International/quicktips/checker
[13] http://www.w3.org/International/quicktips/checker
richard: lists all checks/messages
... and details about them
... also points to authoritative sources
... should review this as a WG
addison: will add this to agenda for next time
matial: Israeli Internet Society hosting group to design test cases
for bidi support in HTML5
... first meeting is next week
... trying to make automated test cases against browsers
... will be interesting to have that
<r12a>
[14]http://www.w3.org/International/tests/tests-html-css/list-text-d
irection
[14]
http://www.w3.org/International/tests/tests-html-css/list-text-direction
richard: new framework, so tests should fit that
<matial> Here is the URL for this initiative:
[15]http://www.w3c.org.il/event/261
[15] http://www.w3c.org.il/event/261
<scribe> ACTION: richard: point out the test framework to Aharon for
potential use in bidi tests [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Point out the test framework to
Aharon for potential use in bidi tests [on Richard Ishida - due
2011-07-27].
HTML5 REVIEW
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JulSep/
0024.html
[17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2011JulSep/0024.html
1. Section 2.5.1. Where it says: -- When a user agent is to strip
line breaks from a string, the user agent must remove any U+000A
LINE FEED (LF) and U+000D CARRIAGE RETURN (CR) characters from that
string. -- Should other line-terminators also be included here?
[18]http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#common-parser-idioms
[18] http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#common-parser-idioms
scribe: such as line separator
[19]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jul/000
9.html
[19]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2011Jul/0009.html
ISSUE-35 (New attribute:
ubi)<[20]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/35> I had left
[21]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10807 open only
because I was not 100% sure that it was a good idea that the
<output> element was also defined to have isolation by default. But
I never did make up my mind that it was a bad idea, so I have no
intention to make a Last Call about it. Just forget about this.
[20] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/35%3E
[21] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10807
aharon: need for bidi isolatoin. fixed by <bdi>
... did not close this bug because html5 made one of the new
elements (output) isolated by default
... not sure if that's the right choice
richard: looked at a couple of days ago and not sure if it still
says that
aharon: it's the default stylesheet
... that would say that
... not the spec itself so much
<r12a> 10.3.5 Bidirectional text
<r12a> bdi, output, [dir=auto] { unicode-bidi: isolate; } /*
case-insensitive */
okay to close
ISSUE-36 (New dir attribute value: auto, and a new attribute:
autodirmethod)<[22]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/36>
Both [23]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10808 and
[24]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11734 were fixed
and are closed. The issue should be closed.
[22] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/36%3E
[23] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10808
[24] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11734
ISSUE-43 (Block-display elements should act as UBA paragraph
breaks)<[25]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/43>
[26]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11829* is
important and is still awaiting action by the editor.*
[25] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/43%3E
[26] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11829*
aharon: issue is now wider
bug is 11829
aharon: default stylesheet is non-normative and not very descriptive
... and doesn't tell you what is supposed to be happening
... in words
... and HTML5 doesn't describe Unicode Bidirectional Algorithm
... how to apply it
... etc.
... CSS spec (writing-mode)
... does describe this
... and default stylesheets invoke this
... so default stylesheet does define how UBA works in a
non-normative and non-declarative way
... so can't tell what the behaviors should be
... and this was accepted by editor
... but not present in document
... I did provide what the text might be
... and pinged
addison: html5 is kind of hand-wavy about bidi
... also, there is a reason not to have stylesheet be normative
... should have a hard reference in html5
richard: could have two stylesheets: one normative and one
informative
aharon: add section that says how bidi works in absense of css
... definition in one place
... comment 8 in:
<aharon> [27]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11829#c8
[27] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=11829#c8
<r12a> see the 4 paras after "By this role, I mean:"
richard: perhaps have a new comment
<r12a> Issue-49
<r12a> [28]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/49
[28] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/49
<r12a> shouldn't have been filed, and works out ok
<r12a> let's just closed
<r12a> close it
<r12a> Issue-53
<r12a> [29]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/52
[29] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/52
<r12a> situation is changing right now
<r12a> since email sent
<r12a> by default lists in html5 behave without interop between
browsers
<r12a> some list items are in one direction, others in another
direction
<r12a> at heart its a css issue
<r12a> this year the css3 lists module was worked on in earnest -
the way it is being addressed is far from settled - keeps changing
names and approaches
<r12a> in the end it should be fine on the css side, but css3 tries
to be very backwards compatible
<r12a> it's not clear yet whether they will decide to make the css
default to be the current browser behaviour or the new behaviour
<r12a> not that they like the old behaviour, it's a question of
interoperability
<r12a> what they want to happen if for the html5 spec to say the
real desireable default in hte default stylesheet
<r12a> unfortunately they still haven't decided on the syntax or
whether it will be necessary to say it in the stylesheet
<r12a> so it's not clear how to proceed
<r12a> the editor is constantly modifying the proposal, never mind
finish review
<r12a> hope is to convince them to commit to new behaviour for
default
<r12a> aharon will be busy lobyying for that over coming days
<r12a> also
<r12a> default text-align is start
<r12a> aharon suggested that the html5 default stylesheet should say
that the default text align for li should be match-parent (already
defined) - leads to uniform alignment
<r12a> dependent othe the soutions proposed this is either something
absolutely necessary or just ok
<r12a> hopefully it will work out that its not important
<r12a> so not clear whether to ask that of the html5 editor yet
<r12a> so, depending on particulars of work on css lists may need
some defaults set, but its not yet clear what
<r12a> richard: so if all becomes clear before end of LC, we should
push for that
<r12a> otherwise we should lodge a flag that this is an issue still
being worked on and that the spec should take into account the
results of the discussion when they become available
<r12a> issue-52
<r12a> [30]http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/52
[30] http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/52
<r12a> mostly fixed - need to just expand on a small comment
<r12a> if it doesn't happen it's not the end of the world 0- its
non-normative
<r12a> [31]http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10823
[31] http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10823
<r12a> ACTION: richard to figure out how to keep alive open bugs for
the html5 LC [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Figure out how to keep alive open
bugs for the html5 LC [on Richard Ishida - due 2011-07-27].
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: richard to figure out how to keep alive open bugs for
the html5 LC [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: richard: point out the test framework to Aharon for
potential use in bidi tests [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2011/07/20-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
--
Richard Ishida
Internationalization Activity Lead
W3C (World Wide Web Consortium)
http://www.w3.org/International/
http://rishida.net/
Register for the W3C MultilingualWeb Workshop!
Limerick, 21-22 September 2011
http://multilingualweb.eu/register
Received on Friday, 22 July 2011 17:15:53 UTC