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Re: are SPARQL queries unicode?

From: Eric Prud'hommeaux <eric@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2005 18:35:39 -0500
To: Martin Duerst <duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp>
Cc: public-i18n-core@w3.org, public-rdf-dawg@w3.org
Message-ID: <20051121233539.GF17026@w3.org>
On Thu, Nov 03, 2005 at 05:37:56PM +0900, Martin Duerst wrote:
> At 21:46 05/10/27, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote:
> >I'm involving the I18N folks in this 'cause they must hae an opinion.
> >
> >Summary for I18N folks:
> >  1. SPARQL has a grammar that's specified in terms of the XML's "EBNF
> >     format".
> >  2. SPARQL sais that at SPARQL Query is a unicode string that follows
> >     the grammar.
> >  3. SPARQL has a media-type registration (on deck) with no charset
> >     parameter. UTF-8 is hardcoded as the only way to express SPARQL
> >     queries in that media type.
> I like this, especially the last point.

too bad noone uses it...

> >Below, I propose text that makes it more clear that we are using
> >unicode codepoints in our grammar.
> >
> >Is it better to say that the grammar is specified in Unicode
> >codepoints that to say that the language is a Unicode string? For
> >instance, I've attached some text
> >  SELECT ?p
> >   WHERE { ?s ?p ?o }
> >
> >in a shift-jis attachment. This is how my Japanese cell phone sends
> >text. Is it a SPARQL query? It's written in an encoding that is not
> >defined in terms of unicode, but does map to unicode (trivially, in
> >fact, for the ascii subset). My thesis is that it is better to say
> >that the grammar is Unicode than that all expressions of the language
> >are in Unicode.
> Why the Shift_JIS example? Didn't you say that all queries are
> in UTF-8? Or is it only the queries that are sent over the net
> with the mime type you define? This would definitely be most
> important for interoperability. One could immagine other encodings
> e.g. for queries that get passed through some API that somehow
> knows the encoding.

I chatted with Martin and explained that the SPARQL Query Language
does not require a specific encoding, and he explained to me that XML
is still the state of the art for charmod compliance.

XML uses ISO 10646
Legal characters are tab, carriage return, line feed, and the legal
characters of Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646.
which is interchangable with Unicode.

The Shift_JIS example was to see if the language could include
non-unicode charsets that intersected with Unicode for at least all
the character used in a given query (my Shift_JIS example used only
[A-Za-z\?\{\}\.]). I gather that the answer is "no"; that the only
way I can know where they intersect is if I use a Shift_JIS that's
defined in terms of Unicode.

> As for terminology, saying that the language is a Unicode string
> is definitely wrong. The language is not a single string, but
> a set of strings (often called 'words' in formal language theory).
> You fixed that above when you said 'all expressions of the language
> are in Unicode'.
> For what to write in the spec itself, I suggest you have a good
> look at http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xml11-20040204/#charsets.
> That section, as far as I know, has passed the test of time.
> >From the candidate media type registration [REG]
> >[[
> >Encoding considerations:
> >    The syntax of the SPARQL Query Language is expressed over code
> >    points in Unicode[UNICODE 3.0]. The encoding is always UTF-8.
> >]]
> Please follow Felix's suggestions for how to cite Unicode.

done -- http://www.w3.org/mid/20051119202228.GB17026@w3.org

> >Is it a good idea to have a conservative media type?
> What do you mean by 'conservative' here?

"conservative" = Allowing only one encoding instead of having a
default encoding and an optional charset parameter.

I guess that's fine. This will encourage APIs and other emergent
protocols to use utf-8, which will simplify life for implementors
and users.

> >The protocol
> >document [PROT] includes two "binings" (a WSDL term) and says that
> >both use UTF-8 for their encoding. When the input comes from a SOAP
> >request, it can rely upon (but does not currently dictate) RFC3023
> >"XML Media Types" for media type declaration. As the input is not
> >defined in terms of the media type, I don't think any text would
> >have to change even if the media type allowed alternate encodings.
> >
> >[REG] http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#mediaType
> >[PROT] http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-protocol/
> I'm not sure I understand this. Reading the protocol document
> requires a lot of knowledge about WSDL. I have only looked
> at the examples. With respect to the HTTP examlpes, I think
> it is very important to not just use "EncodedQuery", because
> it is crucial for interoperability that implementations get
> this encoding correct, both with respect to what characters
> to escape and with respect to how to treat non-ASCII characters
> (of course, the right thing is to first use UTF-8, and then
> %HH encoding, so that this is compatible with the IRI spec,
> but this has to be specified (unless it follows from the
> WSDL bindings, which I hope, but in which case it should
> nevertheless be mentioned and used in a few examples
> explicitly)).

This is my current Protocol doc todo (to address) list:

  1 Describe and cite the mechanics to create an EncodedQuery.

  2 Propose an example, probably

> >On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 01:32:07PM -0400, Eric Prud'hommeaux wrote:
> >> Bj?Sn commented [CMNT] that productions like:
> >>   NCCHAR ::= NCCHAR1 | '-' | [0-9] | #x00B7 | [#x0300-#x036F] | 
> [#x203F-#x2040]
> >> and even
> >>   WS ::= #x20 | #x9 | #xD | #xA
> >> need to specify a codepoint convention for those numbers to mean
> >> anything.
> >>
> >> We've since visited this text, but in the interest of clarity, I am
> >> considering changing our current text from:
> >> [[
> >> A SPARQL query string is a Unicode character string (c.f. section 6.1
> >> String concepts of [CHARMOD]) in the language defined by the following
> >> grammar, starting with the Query production.  The EBNF format is the
> >> same as that used in the XML 1.1 specification[XML11]. Please see the
> >> "Notation" section of that specification for specific information about
> >> the notation.
> >> ]]
> I don't know how the text looked before, but the above text is
> perfectly fine, because XML 1.1 explicitly links the #x notation
> to ISO 10646 (which is equivalent codepoint-by-codepoint with
> Unicode). Of course, there is no problem with explaining part
> of the XML 1.1 notation, but in that case, it should be made
> clear that this is just an exlanation for convenience, not the
> real thing.

excellent. this is already done.

> >> to:
> >> [[
> >> A SPARQL query is a string (c.f. section 6.1 String concepts of
> >> [CHARMOD]) in the language defined by the following grammar, starting
> >> with the Query production.  The EBNF format is the same as that used in
> >> the XML 1.1 specification[XML11]. Numeric references,
> >> e.g. <code>#x27</code> or <code>#xxD7FF</code>, identify charactars by
> >> unicode codepoint. Please see the "Notation" section of that
> >> specification for specific information about the notation.
> >> ]]
> >>
> >> This says that the grammar is read as unicode codepoints (editorial)
> >> and says that SPARQL Queries are independent of encoding (substantive).
> >>
> >> [CMNT] http://www.w3.org/mid/43046b29.399234875@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de
> >
> >
> >
> a286db8ca05aa8cbe9cebab677ea6887
> >X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on homer.w3.org
> >X-Spam-Level:
> >X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=4.5
> >tests=AWL,BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME,PRIORITY_NO_NAME autolearn=no version=3.0.3
> >
> >SELECT ?p
> > WHERE { ?s ?p ?o }
> >
> >
> >Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc"
> >Content-Description: Digital signature
> >Content-Disposition: inline
> >
> >Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> >iQEVAwUBQ2DMLZZX2p1ccTnpAQK8Nwf8D0UJT773XrqLc6pfHKOl0/Y9oWPOqVwX
> >As38YWHeVlLrWhKO3/p3KFmIntewGCYQb/Vmo7aHtc+VeSZh3mNojhJCIxI1pHCq
> >3sEDOfUKCskDCqIz+DETHkZyjz9tcHcArwu7080ntnJx5j2kIXe9rn+C1isBHnr+
> >Qqz1enRW98T7Womk2fr+jfxRO9duey//LSjrUaVagOjVX+3TJ8RyGgCrjhrZY6pc
> >1sH0Cl0j7wvrFe6lY6D6MRAMZV6n6QBJY6H7xh9/cThIAi/afjrM1g==
> >=kr4i
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- 


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Received on Monday, 21 November 2005 23:35:48 UTC

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