RE: [css3-text] Korean should be added to enable additional line breaking rule sets

Sangwhan, thank you for the feedback. However, I'm afraid to say that I didn't understand many of your points. Do you mind if I ask further clarifications?

> Especially, I find "normal" to be too strict, as this is something that will be executed for every single piece of
> CJK text that will be rendered from a implementation - I strongly believe that putting a potential performance
> degradation on the default property is overkill unless absolutely necessary.

This point doesn't look valid to me. The initial value is "auto", not "normal".


> As it is now, it's complex enough for UA vendors to not bother implementing this optional property.

Are you proposing to remove this property from the spec, to simplify the recommendation list, or to remove Korean from the list of languages?

It is optional as you said. If you don't believe it isn't worth to implement, you're free not to do so and still claim compliant to CSS Text Level 3.

If your product targets Japanese market, however, my personal recommendation is to implement this property. Japanese authors wanted sets of rules to switch between. CSS WG didn't want to change line breaking rules for ambiguous code points even when this property is set, so we had to add a filter by language, and here we're.

If I understand correctly, the needs to switch between sets of rules is much lower in C and K than in J, so I'm happy to remove Korean from the list if you wish. Products only for C/K may not even bother to implement this property as you said, but the value of this property still exists. Can you please let me know if you want Korean in the list or not? I heard from a Korean guy who wants Korean in the list. If you want it too, we're all good. If you don't, we probably need to resolve the conflict.

And can you explain what "ROC" and "CIG" mean?


Regards,
Koji

-----Original Message-----
From: Sangwhan Moon [mailto:sangwhan.moon@hanmail.net] 
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 11:19 AM
To: Koji Ishii
Cc: www-style@w3.org; CJK discussion (public-i18n-cjk@w3.org); HTML Korean Interest Group (public-html-ig-ko@w3.org); Florian Rivoal
Subject: Re: [css3-text] Korean should be added to enable additional line breaking rule sets


On Sep 6, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Koji Ishii wrote:

> The recommended code point list for the line-break property[1] has additional code points for Japanese and Chinese only, but it was pointed out by my Korean friend that Korean should be treated more or less the same way as Chinese and Japanese as far as line-breaking is concerned.
> 
> So I'd like to add Korean to the list of content language to enable additional set of line breaking rules.
> 
> Please let me/ML know if this doesn't sound like a good idea. Any other opinions and/or thoughts are also appreciated.

A quick review lead to the impression that the complexity needed to implement this is overwhelming for
the benefits it provides - unless there is a absolute need for some of the exceptions, I believe this should
be handled in a more pragmatic approach to reduce overall overhead needed for rendering text.

Especially, I find "normal" to be too strict, as this is something that will be executed for every single piece of
CJK text that will be rendered from a implementation - I strongly believe that putting a potential performance
degradation on the default property is overkill unless absolutely necessary.

As it is now, it's complex enough for UA vendors to not bother implementing this optional property. My belief
is that the whole intention of specs is that should be made "simple enough" so it is universally implementable
without too much hassle for the sake of interoperability.

Aside from that - two things:

1) I was not able to see the absolute necessity (as in, the meaning changes or becomes illegible in a context
where this is broken in to two lines) for certain exceptions noted in the CJK/normal or CJK/strict - considering that
not all UA implementors are CJK speakers (there aren't many of us who are also UA developers) non-normative
examples of the rationale is probably necessary.

2) Korean uses ascii punctuation, parentheses, quoting, and units with a exception of limited context (i.e. word
processor documents converted to web documents, such as [2] legal documents) and due to that most of the
things that need coverage are already covered in that, with a exception of U+005C - which is used for monetary
units in legacy encoding. (which, are still extremely common in the wild, although thanks to smartphones the
usage of this is gradually decreasing)

Considering the fact that I didn't find it very hard to find a example of this for [3] Korean and [4] Japanese live,
so I believe this case should also be covered in the same (C)JK scope if possible. (Note: Chinese probably
doesn't apply, although I have seen usages of ¥ instead of 元, only in ROC and only in a handwritten context.
Dunno how many ROC people there are in CIG, but it might be worth asking.)

Cheers,
Sangwhan

[1] http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-text/#line-break

[2] http://www.law.go.kr

[3] http://www.ilovecna.com/Network/Network_11_06.html?menu=sub11&PHPSESSID=ecc19486dcd457d45a09aee3da2c55ac

[4] http://www.syoro.com/price.htm


P.S. If I find some time to do so, I might be able to type up a suggestion that covers the points mentioned above,
although I cannot assure this will happen as I'm already overbooked with other things...

Received on Sunday, 16 September 2012 15:29:46 UTC