[hcg] minutes December 2, 2011

The main topic today was a discussion of registry options for EmotionML
(http://www.w3.org/TR/emotionml/)

http://www.w3.org/2011/12/02-hcg-minutes.html
and below as text.
      [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

              Hypertext Coordination Group Teleconference
                              02 Dec 2011

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2011/12/02-hcg-irc

Attendees

   Present
   Regrets
   Chair
          Debbie

   Scribe
          ddahl1

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]actions
         2. [5]EmotionML
     * [6]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 02 December 2011

   <scribe> scribe:ddahl1

actions

   action-70?

   <trackbot> ACTION-70 -- Chris Lilley to take the web on tv need for
   certification to w3m -- due 2011-11-25 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [7]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/70

      [7] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/70

   debbie: Chris isn't here to update, so we can wait on that

   action-71?

   <trackbot> ACTION-71 -- Deborah Dahl to organise HCG discussion of
   media handling once group is public -- due 2012-01-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [8]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/71

      [8] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/71

   action-72?

   <trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Deborah Dahl to organise a discovery session
   after hcg is public -- due 2012-01-06 -- OPEN

   <trackbot> [9]http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/72

      [9] http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/CoordGroup/track/actions/72

EmotionML

   philippe: there are a wide range of solutions, most draconian
   approach is everything is in a Recommendation, more lightweight is a
   public wiki, there are solutions in between.
   ... depending on how much process you want, XPointer is an example
   of a lightweight process
   ... to register you need a pointer to a specification
   ... the less resources you have the more lightweight the process

   marc: requirements are that we need vocabularies of emotions.
   ideally we would make them part of the the specification, but there
   is no agreement
   ... we wanted to give people a choice among well-defined
   vocabularies
   ... we have an XML format for describing vocabularies
   ... we want to group a selection of vocabularies in a central place,
   but people are free to point to outside vocabularies.

   plh: that makes sense

   marc: we want to maintain snippets of XML, because the atomic entity
   in our registry is the vocabulary.
   ... we have looked at a number of options, IANA was very tedious,
   not a lightweight solution.
   ... can we put an XML representation in a wiki?

   plh: you can put pointers to the XML file

   marc: we would also like to have control

   plh: if the wiki is public you don't have control
   ... in HTML5 the wiki can have a status, that is when the WG
   approves or not.

   marc: we've decided to take the human description and put it in a
   document.
   ... we originally tried to create a Note, but there was an
   objection, so we created a WD, but with no expectation that it would
   become a Recommendation
   ... we need a lightweight process for an irregularly updated item,
   ... but the Note is supposed to be final

   see the second link in this message:
   [10]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011OctDec/0022
   .html

     [10]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-cg/2011OctDec/0022.html

   kaz: there are so many possible solutions and we want to find the
   best.

   marc: which of the two seems appropriate?

   plh: who will be in charge of maintaining the Note in five years?
   ... I would suggest going for the wiki or the XPointer registry
   ... should think about this for the long term

   doug: should consider who is the community who is going to be
   suggesting changes, whether a small community or a widely diverse
   and unknown set of people
   ... if you think there are going to be 20-30 items added over the
   next five years, then that would point to a registry, if it's less,
   you probably just need a document.

   marc: probably will be the latter. we just need something that can
   be updated if necessary.

   plh: the wiki would be the most lightweight.

   marc: we had a wiki in the Emotion XG, but it was totally spammed.

   plh: we got better at that

   doug: can make it writable only by WG or someone with a W3C account

   marc: can we add an XML link to the wiki

   plh: if an XML can't be uploaded we should ask why.

   marc: one issue that confused us was the choice between a dated and
   an undated URI, in the case of a wiki it would simply be the link
   ... are there other repercussions? a link to a wiki can't be
   normative

   plh: in HTML5 the wiki is normative

   marc: didn't know that

   plh: look at the definition of the meta-element

   marc: we would move everything from the current WD to the wiki
   ... is it correct that we have control over who has write
   permission?

   plh: the WG can be in charge, but think about what happens in 5
   years
   ... you can lock the page

   marc: the thing to do is to try out the wiki

   kaz: there is no essential difference between a Note and a wiki, so
   fine to use a wiki
   ... the definition of the vocabulary set in the current vocabulary
   WD is defined by XML notation, but being referenced to using HTML
   fragment notation. maybe we should use XPath, not HTML

   marc: we need to be able to point to a permanent XML in the wiki
   ... other people should be able to point to a full URI, not just an
   identifier
   ... we can't draw up the ultimate list of vocabularies, so it must
   always be possible to point outside of the W3C, so that's why we
   need a URI

   debbie: is the write-restricted wiki the way to go?

   marc: we need to verify that there isn't any way for it to be
   harmed, and that we can point to XML
   ... but it looks promising

   plh: just try to put XML on a public wiki
   ... to see if that works

   <plh>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/semantics.html#other-metadata-names

     [11] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/semantics.html#other-metadata-names

   <plh>
   [12]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/semantics.html#other-pragma-directive
   s

     [12] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/semantics.html#other-pragma-directives

   plh: these are some examples from HTML5
   ... the wiki itself document the restrictions

   <plh> [13]http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/links.html#other-link-types

     [13] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/links.html#other-link-types

   marc: it's reassuring that I don't have write permission.

   doug: at TPAC we were talking about the sarcasm element, and we came
   up with two good use cases for this, e.g. accessibility, and for
   non-native speakers
   ... if there were some way to annotate tones in written speech or
   visual display, or have some kind of markup, but some people may not
   understand a tone. that would be a place where a registry might be
   useful.

   marc: this goes in the same direction that we've been thinking.

   doug: machine could be detecting emotion and outputting HTML

   marc: we had a comment from the accessibility WG, but out of scope
   for current work

   doug: definite use cases for people in different cultures

   marc: do you see how we're starting to come up with a vocabulary,
   and it's not trivial

   doug: if you had a core set of critical information that you could
   put into tones, that could get traction.

   marc: that's on the horizon.

   doug: if we had a tone attribute and it represented sarcasm, you
   could style it as appropriate.

   kaz: in SSML 1.0 we tried to extend speech synthesis to various
   languages, like Chinese or Japanese. EmotionML might need some
   internationalization variants

   <kaz> kaz: e.g., text level vs. actual intention :)

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     _________________________________________________________

Received on Friday, 2 December 2011 16:12:50 UTC