- From: <tomasz@t-code.pl>
- Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 07:32:55 +0000
- To: "Dietrich Schulten" <ds@escalon.de>, public-hydra@w3.org
Hi Dietrich, I don't like the duplicate hydra:allowedIndividual(s) property. using @type seems intuitive but I guess we don't to have an individual used as a class. So how about simply "hydra:individual"? This would be more in line with supportedProperty/property pair. Also do we already have the hydra:title defined? If not I'd simply used rdfs:label. { "@type": "Property", "hydra:allowedIndividual": [ { "hydra:individual": "EventCancelled", "rdfs:label": "..." }, { "hydra:individual": "EventPostponed", "rdfs:label": "..." } ] } Tom January 10 2015 7:52 AM, "Dietrich Schulten" <ds@escalon.de> wrote: > In order to get internationalized captions for allowed individuals one could do the following. If > :allowedIndividuals is expected to contain objects with an attribute :allowedIndividual > (:allowedIndividuals :range :AllowedIndividual), one can use that with "@type":"vocab" to interpret > the values as individuals in the default vocab, here enum values in schema.org (see below and [1]). > > Drawback: If someone just wants enum values without captions, things are more complicated than > necessary. > > Opinions? > > Assuming that the client requested Italian as language (the other language facilities of json ld > such as @language or language map would work, too [2]). > > { > "@context": { > "@vocab": "http://schema.org/", > "hydra": "http://www.w3.org/ns/hydra/core#", > "hydra:allowedIndividual": { > "@type": "@vocab" > }, > }, > ... > "hydra:supportedProperty": [ > { > "hydra:property": "eventStatus", > "hydra:allowedIndividuals": [ > { > "hydra:allowedIndividual": "EventCancelled", > "hydra:title": "manifestazione annullata" > }, > { > "hydra:allowedIndividual": "EventPostponed", > "hydra:title": "manifestazione rinviata" > } > ] > } > ] > ... > } > > In JSONLD-Playground: > [1] http://tinyurl.com/qz85ep6 > [2] http://tinyurl.com/om7fsqc > > Am 09.01.2015 um 18:03 schrieb Dietrich Schulten: > >> I was considering to use oslc:allowedValue in hydra-java but wasn't sure if I could use it > because >> its value is explicitly a reference to another class, not an embeddable restriction - and I need > it >> in embedded form for the moment. >> I see the label-value problem, too. I'll try to make it work with @type:vocab. >> >> On January 9, 2015 5:17:38 PM Kev Kirkland <kev@dataunity.org> wrote: >> >>> Just to chime in - I agree also. >>> >>> I've implemented the 'oslc:allowedValue' system from Resource Shape 2.0 [1] in the AngularJS >> Hydra >>> client [2]. It's a stop gap solution as I needed something working in a hurry for Data Unity. I >>> went with OSLC as it was quick to understand and implement, but I'm very open minded about other >>> solutions. >>> >>> One of the issues I've found with 'oslc:allowedValue' is that I can't find a way to specify a >> label >>> for an RDF literal 'enum' value. This means the label in the HTML option list matches the > literal >>> value used in the vocab, which isn't always easily understood by the user. This could well be >> down >>> to my lack of understanding about OSLC though. >>> >>> I've only put 'oslc:allowedValue' directly on the resource representation at this stage, so I >>> haven't figured out how to integrate it closely with Hydra. The AngularJS Hydra client looks for >>> OSLC information on the Resource when building the Form view, then uses it to populate HTML drop >>> downs on the page. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Kev >>> >>> [1] http://www.w3.org/Submission/2014/SUBM-shapes-20140211/ >>> [2] https://github.com/dataunity/dataunity-hydra-client >>> On 9 January 2015 at 15:23, Thomas Hoppe <thomas.hoppe@n-fuse.de> wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I just wanted to add that I consider the case Dietrich is describing; >>>> in my own words: >>>> Specifying expected properties _plus_ a range/ resource/ collection/ enumeration >>>> of potential values a very important one. >>>> Ex: User profile creation case where you ask for the country of >>>> residence of a user and expect an item from a resource in the same API as value. >>>> I wanted to bring up this case earlier but wanted to wait until we have resolved the >>>> "easy" scenarios. >>>> I also think that OWL restrictions are probably too hard to understand/ implement >>>> and that only because of this I think that having a property like `hydra:range` >>>> could make sense. >>>> >>>> Greets, Thomas >>>> On 01/06/2015 12:21 PM, Dietrich Schulten wrote: >>>> >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>>>> Hash: SHA1 >>>>> >>>>> Am 05.01.2015 um 11:15 schrieb Ruben Verborgh: >>>>> >>>>>> HI Dietrich, >>>>>> >>>>>> [From issue text:] >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Isn't that part of ontological modelling, and thus >>>>>>>> part of the >>>>>>>> property? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do not think the ontological model of a property covers it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Perhaps not all cases, but I think for many. >>>>>> >>>>>>> On the one hand, sometimes not all possible values are >>>>>>> predefined, but they may be extensible by individuals from other >>>>>>> vocabs, see the usage of goodrelations enums from schema.org. >>>>>> >>>>>> In that case, you might have a more specific property. (But I >>>>>> realize this modeling-based solution is not for everybody.) >>>>> >>>>> What about the other hand [from issue text]? >>>>> >>>>>>> On the other hand, while a value might occur on a class in >>>>>>> general, >>>>> >>>>> it might not be suitable in a particular context. >>>>> >>>>> For instance, assume that only the creator of an event should be able >>>>> to cancel it altogether (PUT eventStatus EventCanceled), others can >>>>> only change the status to rescheduled or postponed. Or, let's say it >>>>> should only be possible to reschedule an event as long as we are more >>>>> than two weeks away from the event date. >>>>> >>>>> As a REST service implementor I would like to tell the client exactly >>>>> which status changes are available for a resource right now. >>>>> >>>>> Are there OWL constructs which would allow me to do so? >>>>> >>>>> BTW, the Resource Shapes paper [1] section 4 discusses another point >>>>> why OWL is not well suited to describe application constraints. As >>>>> they put it, "Unfortunately, an OWL reasoner will go to great lengths >>>>> to make some superficially inconsistent looking graphs consistent". By >>>>> saying that a property :owner is a :functionalProperty of a >>>>> :ChangeRequest, I do not prevent people to post a ChangeRequest with >>>>> two owners :Bob and :Joe. A reasoner would simply infer that :Bob and >>>>> :Joe must be the same resource and happily accept the change request. >>>>> >>>>>>> If you think rdfs:range, it is not about value constraints but >>>>>>> inference, so it doesn't enumerate possible values at all (I've >>>>>>> learned that much by now). Or do you have something else in >>>>>>> mind? >>>>>> >>>>>> OWL does it. I understand most people don't want to go that >>>>>> “complex” (even though it's quite alright), but we should just be >>>>>> aware that a modeling-based solution also exists. >>>>> >>>>> And it would have the beauty that it is already available and the >>>>> concepts are known, at least by modelers. I would certainly prefer >>>>> that over defining new hydra properties. >>>>> >>>>> What do you have in mind, maybe owl:Restriction? >>>>> >>>>>> For example: foaf:knows has a range of foaf:Person. If we're >>>>>> developing a social application, it might make sense to restrict >>>>>> this to only people on the network. Yet listing them exhaustively >>>>>> would probably not make sense. So then perhaps a ex:knows >>>>>> (subproperty of foaf:knows) where the range is “people from the >>>>>> network” makes sense. >>>>> >>>>> But how can I express a Range "people from the >>>>> network", given that >>>>> the number of people on the network is dynamic? You bring up an >>>>> interesting point. A ReST service would also want to tell the client: >>>>> use this link (or IriTemplate) to get a hydra:Collection of allowed >>>>> values. A third property hydra:allowedResources which may contain an >>>>> IriTemplate or a plain Resource which can be dereferenced into a >>>>> Collection or PagedCollection could achieve that. I'll update #82 >>>>> accordingly [2] and see which comments I get :) >>>>> >>>>> The original purpose of #82 is to have a means to list a rather >>>>> limited number of possible values and to leverage @type:@vocab for >>>>> enumerated values like http://schema.org/DeliveryMethod which has >>>>> members from goodrelations. >>>>> >>>>> [1] http://events.linkeddata.org/ldow2013/papers/ldow2013-paper-02.pdf >>>>> [2] https://github.com/HydraCG/Specifications/issues/82 >>>>> >>>>> - -- >>>>> Dietrich Schulten >>>>> Escalon System-Entwicklung >>>>> Bubenhalde 10 >>>>> 74199 Untergruppenbach >>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>>>> Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (MingW32) >>>>> >>>>> iEYEARECAAYFAlSrxUcACgkQuKLNitGfiZP6PgCgts8wESKTDz3atmXofBPheWTt >>>>> ACAAn2S9kUWiUwpgZUd/cPXnDujw00ib >>>>> =z5B1 >>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> -- www.dataunity.org twitter: @data_unity
Received on Saturday, 10 January 2015 07:33:45 UTC