- From: Timothy Holborn <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
- Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2025 12:39:15 +1000
- To: Human-centric AI <public-humancentricai@w3.org>
- Cc: w3c-humancentricai.668c3d888fc5fa9d66016da145955e9f.show-sender@streams.zulipch
- Message-ID: <CAM1Sok1QEU_bgj7GXr_+NzsO5myz3vJ1h1_ApriR+ApwqtbKYQ@mail.gmail.com>
Hi All, I’ve spent some time - trying to lay-out some of the ideas I've had about Human Centric AI related tooling, that could be advanced via w3c - if considered to have merit, and if the resources can be found to do so. If anyone is interested in collaborating on any of these projects, let me know. NOTE: I've often got older works on efforts relating to these topics; but, elected to generate the documents more rapidly, by providing fairly simple descriptions into grok which then helped to quickly generate respec files. There's still alot of problems with these files and the format of the text; it is hoped, that others can get a 'sense' of what i'm generally trying to point at, and that rather than finishing the job (better) first - it was - 'better' to provide an update about it for you. SOME of the documents have been updated more than others (ie: by hand, etc.). Git Repo: https://github.com/mediaprophet/init-draft-standards-wip/tree/main/rights *Agent Discovery Protocol (“ADP”): * https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/ADP/) notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/ADP/README.md To provide a public means for associating basic (public) information about the holder of a domain or subdomain. This is intended to be interoperable with both WebID and ‘Socially Aware Online Data Storage’ services (ie: solid). With Semantic Web, URIs have locations; if the location is based upon a ‘POD’ address (ie: hostProvider.tld/\[mypod\]/) then if a user moves to a different location, all the links break. By using a domain name that the person owns (or is a sub-domain provided by family / parents); this problem is resolved. It also means that rather than looking-up someone's bitcoin (or eCash, etc.) address, it should be able to be discovered simply via their domain name. Similarly also, their CURRENT SociallyAwareCloudStorage ( https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/CloudStorage.html ) location (ie: mydata or solid, etc). Other use-cases considered included; - Means to define different categories of web-sites (domains) to address ‘internet shutdown’ issues. - Means to associate metadata of content from a source location to the type of agent (ie: content was from [chatgpt.com](http://chatgpt.com) [grok.com]( http://grok.com) or whatever) - Means to provide discoverability of underlying ‘web of data’ services (ie: MCP address, which didn’t exist when i first started on it \- noting also, things like sparql end-points, etc). It is believed that part of this needs to be done via IETF; *ADP Internet Draft WIP:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/ADP/rfc.txt *Agreements: * https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/agreements/ notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/agreements/README.md To provide a means for people to form agreements (inc. support for constituencies) with one-another. In social-web related implementations (ie: when people have their own domains, etc.) then the means for people to form agreements with one-another, rather than just ‘accepting terms of service’ with a checkbox (mandates?) \- requires a defined approach. Part of this approach assumes widely supported instruments (such as human rights instruments) are supported via RDF; which would also then enable personal (private) agents to evaluate whether engagement between agents is in compliance with those agreements or not. Also, relationships change overtime; it may lead to access to a person's home, car, private info, shared info (commons in relation to the relationship itself); those sorts of terms need agreements - that’s the point of agreements… old concept, not supported easily via ‘digital transformation’ yet. *Context Markup Language: * https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/cml/ notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/cml/README.md To define the intended, specified meaning of otherwise unstructured text; and, *Context Markup Language Document:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/CMLD/ notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/CMLD/README.md to support CML in an external document (eg; similar to a css or js file) The concept is that there’s a mark-up means to provide a literal / logical programming / specific meaning \- for a particular term used in unstructured text. It could also be used to provide context in terms of metadata. *DID-GIT:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/did-git/ notes; https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/did-git/README.md to define a DID for GIT. (not github) Most machines can support git. The protocol has a bunch of good functionality to support provenance, etc. *Permissive Commons:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/PC/ notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/PC/README.md To update ‘open-data’ and/or ‘commons’ supports to incorporate use of non-http-uris for linked-data (rdf) resources. Permissive commons \- is an advancement of ‘linked-open-data’ whereby the inability to maintain resources online is sought to be addressed via DLTs. This was one of the most critical reasons why Decentralised IDentifiers, was thought to be a great idea (\~2014). *Semantic Bookmarks: * https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/SemBookmarks/ notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/SemBookmarks/README.md To update ‘web-bookmarks’ to support semantic (RDF) information. May also consider how to decentralise archival support for internet (ie; web) resources. Bookmarks are old and simple. They could be updated to incorporate a schema file, which improves the means to then query local libraries. *Human Centric Biometrics:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/biometrics/ notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/Biometrics/README.md To define how people can own their own biometrics, whilst enabling means to ensure manageable and permissive use of online systems in relation to the use of them. People should own their own biometrics as an extension of themselves. Ontology related notes; - *Human-Centric AI Ontology: * https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/HCAIO/ (notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/agreements/README.md): to provide top-level ontology for human beings and Human Centric AI. - *Description Of an Agent:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/DOA/ (notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/DOA/README.md ): To provide ontology for ‘agents’. - *Description of an Entity:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/DOE/ (notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/DOE/README.md ); to provide ontology for ‘entities’ - *Ontology for Multi-Entity Rights:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/rights/ (notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/rights/README.md ): to define a rights-framework that better reflects considerations in relation to electronic informational resources and related semantics. - *Human Centric Digital Birth Records:* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/DigitalBirthRecord/ (notes: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/DigitalBirthRecord/README.md): to provide a foundation for ‘Human Centric AI / Web / Internet’ related systems, ensuring natural persons (rather than registered legal personalities) have digital agency. NOTE: The top-level predicate for 'OWL' is 'thing' (or nothing). I argue that's suitable for 'things' but not souls. not natural people. I suspect these works would or could end-up being remodelled into - a very different - far improved - structure. I've just not had time to do it enough, to better illustrate considerations - yet. ADP, from a W3C perspective, is also most likely - mostly about defining the ontology for it. There's a range of complicated strategic considerations and implications. The works do not yet declaratively state semantic version control, which I think is likely important; as to ensure mitigation against any future challenges where intended purposes may be influenced by institutional actors, if / once, it makes progress. Historically, alot of these functions were supported - somewhat (context, in relation to time, etc) by FOAF - ie: FOAF:AGENT:SOFTWARE ( https://web.archive.org/web/20070829104416/http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/#term_Agent ) or otherwise... (as was illustrated to some folk sometime ago, from memory - before the 'agentic' stuff became so popular)... FOAF: https://web.archive.org/web/20070829104416/http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/ is widely supported, and was - foundational... Yet, it's also now - fairly old and the rest of the 'web of data' has developed alot since. Part of the challenge, in my mind, is how to then define support for ontology on non-http-uris (ie: IPFS, GIT, etc). I had a bit of a look at https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg engine - thinking maybe, update it? refactor the ontology? https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/tree/main/data/releases/29.2 noting - atm, it appears to be in english not in all languages... which, (as is implied) leads to complications - that will take more time (resources) to better consider.. thereby also, impacting the structure of any respec docs done (as noted) to provide some guidance / support & related illustrations, in the meantime. NOTE: SchemaOrg has some heritage with SEO and importantly also, finding places (ie: google maps, etc); therefore, types like 'doctor' = a place, not a person - https://schema.org/Physician there are alot of ontologies - https://lod-cloud.net/ yet also, some of the ontological interfaces (ie: wikidata) does not have a comparable amount of information than the related plain-text source (ie: wikipedia item, paired with wikidata item); there's also some 'factoring' implications by seeking to put Semantic Web (HTTP) ontologies on non-http-uris. I've made some notes in the above noted (respec formatted) docs. *SPARQL-MM*: https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/Sparql-mm/ Sparql-MM (multimedia fragments) was originally done https://github.com/tkurz/sparql-mm however i couldn't find a respec document outlining it. I believe (when combined with Sparql-fed) this offers ways to support discovery of multimedia objects / fragments, in a decentralised way. *Universal Language Encoding Methodology (ULEM):* https://mediaprophet.github.io/init-draft-standards-wip/ulem/ There's alot of languages that are not presently supported by Unicode. a quickly produced description of the scale of the problem is described; https://github.com/mediaprophet/init-draft-standards-wip/blob/main/ulem/Digital_Support_for_Mother_Tongue_Languages.md Whilst there's alot of talk about there not being any more 'data' for LLMs / machine-Learning, its difficult to understand how this makes sense - if - languages remain unsupported. GENERAL NOTES & CONSIDERATIONS: I've also put some 'issues' : https://github.com/mediaprophet/init-draft-standards-wip/issues IF these 'respec' projects are sought to be further developed by other members of this w3c human centric ai cg - then, it is probably best to figure out a better location for the files / project files, than where they've been put presently. I have historically set-up a Human Centric AI xyz 'org' https://github.com/orgs/HumanCentricAI-xyz/repositories when the hope was to advance works with ISOC & W3C - which didn't work out... There's others that I intend to produce about 'Ai Safety Protocols', which some of the above could be categorised as - but are still incomplete. There was some work on a 'agent labelling' project, which was before MCP and as is otherwise in-part addressed by the ADP concept; and, there's other decentralisation infrastructure to support trust between one-another, such as local content checks that can provide 'green ticks', alongside potential use-cases around police-checks and other factors that relate to 'social web' systems, where people might want features to better trust one-another - in an environment, where people can have relationships that are not otherwise mediated by traditional web 2.0 platforms. Another factor / consideration recently; is how to more clearly describe the earlier 'sense' work, to better illustrate how to create an 'inforg' ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inforg ) container format, that enables export / migration between platforms, of 'their information'. As noted in that work, the current considerations / tests / experiments, look at how to employ HDF5 (h5) files to achieve this outcome; whilst, i'm also aware of newer works that appear to be using MP4 files in interesting ways.. Again - I consider these works to have many non-trivial implications, considerations and design requirements. (as to ensure human rights supporting focus is maintained / realised). Yet, it became obvious to me during IGF that there's alot of people who may only be defined 'on the internet' via some sort of 'wallet' related identifier, without the means to maintain agency over anything else. there's alot of use-cases around this, including people who are serving time in prison ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRGhrYmUjU4 ) and, whilst i'm not sure their design of a 'prison wallet', i found the answer to my search for the terms meaning - kinda funny (i assume, that's not what they're intending to support); kinda like the psychiatric meaning of DID... which, also relates the consequences upon people who've suffered serious human rights harms... Finally: When my time participating with W3C (via Henry Story initially, then others... 🙏🕊️) started; the work was built around the use of WebID, RWW & therefore also, advancements (ie: web-payments, credentials / verifiable claims, dids, etc); over that time, MyData ( https://github.com/okffi/mydata/blob/gh-pages/en/pdf/MyData-nordic-model.pdf ) evolved, alongside other initiatives. In my earlier designs, the intended outcome was to use a fabric of identifiers (webid-tls, webid-rsa, webid-oidc, plus other aspects) that then ended-up being curated via systems that sought to end-ify (that is, clarify cryptographically) the series of 'agents' involved in sessions... thereby helping to ensure computational awareness about say, where a person is (are they both in Australia - As well as using their credit card in Asia? or does logic suggest, they can't be in two places at once?) - since then, the 'wallet' methods have developed (it was defined as a threat, much earlier on); and, i don't know how these systems achieve a similar outcome. This also has implications about solid - perhaps... I'm not sure yet. Whilst, earlier works on RWW could be rebuilt and/or sought to be harmonised with other approaches (ie: those advanced by MyData); yet also, the importance of namespace (RDF, in-effect); is often not supported by other forms of implementations, and the works on 'permissive commons' (non-http-uri RDF) isn't advanced, afaik; yet, i've not done enough recent work on 'DID's' to know better - as, well - in-part, i disagreed with the notion that the term should mean 'decentralised IDENTITY' rather than 'Decentralised 'Identifiers'', which imho, has important semantic differentiations - notwithstanding, the right for people to have different religions, beliefs, etc... Just that also, w3c should be about interoperability (ability for people to use different systems, built with different ideologies; (ie: windows, linux, osx; or different browsers, etc.). Overall: I intend to update the repos with other constituents as / when; both, I get time & am able to do so. My initial works were from the late 90s early 2000s, which changed alot when I got stuck into it with greater gusto in 2010... it's now 2025. alot has developed over that time (not so much foaf) so, whilst somewhat exhausted and bothered alot by the lack of support for human rights protections (enabled for persons, in courts of law, via digital evidence, etc. alongside other broader issues, threats, etc.); thinking, when some of these problems first emerged, the children then, are now adults... problems are still left unaddressed.. There is both a cause to look at employing tooling produced, yet perhaps not advanced as much as was hoped by early contributors, to achieve particular use-case related outcomes (ie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhwAiTOFPrc ); vs. reconsidering 'the stack' from a modern point of view, which may both, take more time, introduce additional risks / postponements; influenced also both by, the means to more quickly generate outcomes due to newer technologies, whilst making it more difficult to get meaningful consensus based advancements, due to the increased volume and diversity of contributor areas of expertise - (certainly not bad, but also not fast); and, the continuing issue that there's a lack of resources available for what i'd call - human centric - works... (ie: not platform / consumer based 'monthly rents', etc.). *PERSONALLY*: I have to focus on finding a path to address my personal circumstances. I am hopeful this will result in a solution that will lead to means to better resource these and related works - for humanity, etc... Which involves seeking to discover the best jurisdiction to do the work (where its able to be better supported), then find the resources to do so better; Nonetheless, I have a limited amount of time and have medical issues impacting my ability to concentrate (neuralgia & untreated ADD/ADHD (apparently - the cure is 'move to queensland', although that's a clinically disputed notion - i'm not able to do much about, notwithstanding the issues of pain - that has improved - but is still a problem. underlying problem likely poverty & lack of comprehension generally, about how 'web standards' and related works are done & Whom by;although, i suspect doctors aren't happy about 'vaccine passports' and/or were? i don't know - i didn't like them - didn't support it. Particularly in relation to the implications associated with children. didn't think it was the best way to get critical mass on an alternative to google / microsoft / facebook credentials. As noted, when we were trying to charter the work in 2015; https://soundcloud.com/ubiquitous-au/2nd-june-2015-credentialscgtelecon-medical- So, i'm guessing part of my problem is that the vast majority of medical workers, continued work throughout the time? I don't know. maybe they think it was my fault, or maybe i'm confused - in-fact, i am, just don't fully know how.) In-order to address these challenges, I need to sort out my socioeconomic situation before being able to do anything about it. I thought it was important to provide some info that could contribute towards former works illustrated on the lists earlier, as to hopefully - help the group, find some direction and/or work, projects to advance... As i've been doing it, i've found that often people go about putting some of this into a LLM (ie: chatgpt, etc) yet, i note that the context of these systems doesn't take into consideration the constituencies in full, nor the underpinnings (ie: works like RWW, Credentials (verifiable claims), etc. which all form constituencies to broader ecosystems that in my opinion (purpose) can operate very differently to the present-day pursuits to solve all the problems via 'digital identity wallets' (probably a major reason why i'm having trouble getting medical care, etc... 'adversaries'!! ), and/or similar (seemingly thin-client?) .. IGF was held recently, i participated online as best i could - NOTES RE: ME, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erTe4GrzOlE&t=3221s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNQvUxa4gtw&t=3886s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDoqVBMbUDU&t=2523s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNQvUxa4gtw&t=2164s It appears the ADP related work has been advanced from the time i presented it at IETF119 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDH5eaIF_zc&t=2024s ) to address 'law of war' (International Human Rights Law / IHL) issues, which i think is a good thing. Although, I lament that we've not been able to do more via this CG... FWIW: I've also seen alot of 'empathy as a service' and related 'mental health' bots (LLM targets, etc); I've also seen these tools being applied towards efforts to understand 'consciousness', and related factors. The application of these efforts (commercially) to target children particularly worries me, whilst i suspect there's probably benefits if applied to persons in aged-care facilities suffering from degenerative disorders such as alzheimer. As is otherwise somewhat implicit, the architectural considerations made by the constituencies noted above; are different to platform-centric or organisational-centric (ie: gov or platform+gov, or platform+gov+gov+gov+data-sales, etc) modalities, which thereby also seek to address various 'context' issues, in a human-centric manner. I hope this helps! Implicitly - people are welcome to fork the repos for w3c works... Yet presently, I think they need alot more work before being considered by the group to change the publication status to anything more meaningful. *Broadly otherwise;* I've also continued to update the Human Centric AI - Google Alerts - sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BdFy5m-J5Lj5LnYxDY7d06MtKaUw3G3UqaLWKnuwptk/edit?gid=0#gid=0 noting, that the publicDocuments tab - is incomplete. Inrupt, co-founded by TimBL ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkjyCPuTKPw ) has some new content from London Tech Week https://www.inrupt.com/blog/insights-from-london-tech-week-2025 https://technologymagazine.com/news/ltw-2025-interview-with-inrupt-co-founder-ceo-john-bruce Personally, I don't understand how solid turned into a wallet, yet, I suspect there's more 'under the hood', as is generally the case otherwise with the body of work known as 'w3c'... I'm currently working on how to 'blockchain' an economic model to support human-centric works, contributions, civics, etc. the notion is premised upon the idea of people being paid fairly for useful work, but not in perpetuity. therein - production requires the employment of resources, including the time and effort of people; and, it's important to address 'digital slavery' and/or related exploitative underlying problems, that disaffect both our ability to advance humanitarian ict works; and, our ability to better address cyber-security related issues and semantic challenges. As this work is presently being modelled using Bitcoin-ABC as a foundation, I'm thinking it's not really a w3c project - at least, not until there's some sort of derivatives that become more useful for that purpose. Therein, part of what I'm looking to achieve is to use RDF in relation to SLP (old spec: https://github.com/simpleledger/slp-specifications ); which basically means, RDF (inc. SHACL, etc.) on IPFS or similar, that then gets baked into tokens. If anyone is interested in helping out - noting - its difficult to track contributions / provide 'obligation / obligation free' semantics until it's done; Finally also, designs are (have always been) intended to support a future solution for people to own the prosthetic extension of their 'mindware', akin to a prosthetic eye (i have one, had one since i was ~1 Y/old); its rent free!! owned by me, not some platform - etc. Yet, i'm *unwilling *to do more meaningful work on that, until there's a safe place to do so. IMHO: there have already been attempts to get 'my free work' (so they call it, although, unsure of the physics explanation for the therum?) to then deploy in relation to BCI or other applications that appears to seek to produce some proprietary approach that can be owned and commercialised (not necessarily via a 'consent' model) by those who've seemingly employed sophisticated tactics to do so. I can't protect against that in poverty and without resources. it needs a safe place to be done - in full - properly, with integrity, moral purpose & outcomes, that materially act - to support human rights, not pervert, undermine, deprecate or via 'digital transformation' act to effectively - define human beings, as another class of consumable natural resource for mining, exploitation, etc. Its befuddling to consider the implications of the barriers brought about, given, such 'competitors' are both human and often also, parents and/or grandparents. In the meantime, I'm more focused on seeking to illustrate the many social use-cases, such as ensuring support for homeless people and otherwise addressing fundamental social needs that have not otherwise been better addressed. The hope is that this will in-turn help to illustrate the flaws, otherwise set aside, that are persistent and costly.This is then coupled with my continued efforts to help people better understand underlying concepts, such as 'what is semantic web', or 'ontology' or various other factors; The environment I'm using is zulip, which then supports video conferencing (zoom like functionality) via zulip natively (and freely). The links to the apps are, Download Zulip Apps: https://zulip.com/apps/ Download Jitsi Apps https://jitsi.org/downloads/ (not needed for desktop use) A set-up could be produced for the W3C Human Centric AI CG (or for whatever other purpose); and, the tools are otherwise used by IETF amongst others. Yet, as noted earlier, i've got one running for 'Web Civics' Invite Link: https://webcivics.zulipchat.com/join/vouhrkyb73p5jrrcgqjctqdu/ (indeed, i've experimentally sent this email to that environment also...) Which is where you can find me if you want to chat (other than linkedin or via email, etc.) Best regards, Timothy Charles Holborn. Media Prophet | Web Civics | Trust Factory | Webizen https://www.linkedin.com/in/ubiquitous/
Received on Saturday, 5 July 2025 02:40:00 UTC