Re: Volunteers for Chair?

https://soundcloud.com/ubiquitous-au/2nd-june-2015-credentialscgtelecon-medical
- part of the conversation about seeking to get credentials 'chartered' in
w3c...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v2
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2004973
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02243-1/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7579175/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8450051/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_lockdowns

""In 2020, the first year of the pandemic, the number of Internet users
grew by over 11 per cent, the largest increase in a decade; in low- and
middle-income countries (LMICs) Internet use went up 15 per cent. According
to the latest ITU data, Internet use grew to 66 per cent of the population
in 2022, reaching 5.3 billion people, up from 54 per cent in 2019. A
significant part of this growth was driven by the need to use quarantine
related applications such as videoconferencing for work and education as
well as online shopping, access to public services and remote health
consultation. At the same time, the pandemic sharply magnified the
consequences of the digital divide and today 2.7 billion people are without
broadband and not able to access public services or learn from home.""
source:
https://www.broadbandcommission.org/publication/state-of-broadband-2022/

there were warnings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zXqHIJJVxk

so, my now former colleagues went about that.. I started on the 'peace
infrastructure project', whereby the build was / is different; but needed
means to use human right agreements fashioned in a manner that enables
their use between one-another in environments where not all communications
are mediated by platforms.  So, after a few years of not figuring out how
to get that done via the UN IE: https://metadata.un.org/sdg/

I went off to WSIS:
https://soundcloud.com/ubiquitous-au/my-question-human-rights-instruments-for-digital-wallets-valuescredentials

the consequence of my concerns, led to my seeking to bring about to fix up
some issues - particularly also - AI safety protocols - via this W3C
initiative...  but, i just haven't been able to resource it.

here's SOME notes about consciousness:
https://cdn.knightlab.com/libs/timeline3/latest/embed/index.html?source=1r-bo83ImIEjSCmOFFMcT7F79OnCHDOGdkC_g9bOVFZg&font=Default&lang=en&hash_bookmark=true&initial_zoom=4&height=750#event-consciousness-qm-ai-studies-video-edition

notes i probably can't talk about as a 'chair'.
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1-iYNUBNyJKCn-nk52ovpoAWESVUsFnB7BMEYP7i0qMg/edit?usp=sharing

but, i think the outcome is a thin-client model, given market-saturation
brought about via vaccine passport related works; that, the outcome will be
a wallet - on a phone, don't worry if you loose it, they'll back it up for
you.

and, i don't think these models allow for furnishing means for people to
own the software artifacts (subject to IP / Licensing, et.al.) pertaining
to their own consciousness.  nor, have the objectives of seeking to ensure
people have evidence of the interactions they have with others -
particularly those funded by government - as to take problems, to a court
of law to have sorted out on the basis of evidence:
https://vimeo.com/30416090

The term 'human centric' from my perspective (re: w3c works, etc.); was
about a different modality for the economic / IP related considerations;
given the ability for legal personalities to own IP was well founded, but,
that was not the case for natural persons, negatively impacting human
rights.  now, as a consequence of investments made by various parties - i
think, the term has kinda lost its meaning, certainly, there's alot to do
if real alternatives are to come about - that does more, than lower the
cost of services by seeking to use market-mix mentalities to distribute the
cost of infrastructure investments, into customer mix ARPU (average revenue
per user) related tactics - for beneficiaries...

Personally,

i've built a dual xeon box (silver 42xx) with 256GB ram and 72GB vRAM over
2 x a4000 + 2 x a4500  - understanding that the machines needed to maintain
privacy / produce (or do RD&D locally) outcomes due to the tactics
employed, are now, new, often tens of thousands of dollars; and, that's
prohibitive, particularly for anyone seeking to work on human rights
related use-cases. thereafter, will probably end-up using:

https://www.qubes-os.org/ & a cheap VPS to migrate my life to my own
possession and then advance https://github.com/WebizenAI/

There's some tools noted:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19IEgvdvwl_EOGhmIFinVQu4OerRojeje8PaZWGvoO4Q/edit?gid=353579630#gid=353579630


but i'd prefer to get my own system sorted out... and, i think i need to do
some art, i think its important for my wellbeing. overall, the failures i
feel so sad about... not only impact me personally, in profound ways...
but seemingly also, now billions of others souls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHB_G_zWTbc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aigR2UU4R20

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-humancentricai/

i do hope the group can make progress in a positive way, and will
contribute as best as possible...


Best.

Tim.

On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 at 13:54, Gabriel Lopes <gabriellopes9102@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> That's a powerful and insightful thread to be connected to, I would say.
> Much have changed in so few time, that I often feel overwhelmed by an
> ultra-fast paced potentially risked sequence of transformations in
> technology, principally concerning this transposition from *what we know
> about* consciousness onto artificiality, often pushing the human picture
> to the edges, where we may become simply consumers in a world *yet to be
> depleted *according to many.
>
> I'm in this group since the week it was formally manifest, following an
> world-wide concern about *what are the AI Giants *planning to do next,
> and since then, I'm trying to build up my projects in an essay to not being
> neither surprised or marginalized, while part of the world is trying to
> leech out from its leaves what's being possible to, even though sometimes
> the day after tomorrow won't come as expected.
>
> So, I'm hoping that each of our defeats may get the time and space not
> only for being recovered, but studied, analysed, and used in our future
> wins. Timothy, if you have been defeated my friend, is because you fought.
> I deeply appreciate the echoes of your Brawls. By reading your e-mails I
> saw the resonance in my own journey, confronting the truth of breaking,
> crushing, between expectations and realizations, principally in the last
> year, mostly caused by variables out of my scope.
>
> I hope this group keeps its epicentric contribution at the most valuable
> part of ICT and AI.
> One more time, thank you for bringing all of these 33 members
> <https://www.w3.org/community/humancentricai/participants> together.
>
> All the best,
>
> Em sex., 9 de ago. de 2024 às 09:35, BVK Sastry(YSAM) <
> yogasamskrutham@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Namaste
>>
>> Welcome on board Michael Robbins
>>
>>
>>
>> I will continue to be helpful supporting person in your new welcome role.
>>
>>
>>
>> Technology cannot be aggressive and oppressive using monolingual model to
>> serve the comity of World- Languages. English has done well, but it cannot
>> assume to be the Big brother with a stick to regulate non-English like
>> languages access to technology benefits.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim has provided good foundation to progress further.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> BVK Sastryr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Timothy Holborn [mailto:timothy.holborn@gmail.com]
>> *Sent:* 09 August 2024 16:11
>> *To:* Michael Robbins
>> *Cc:* public-humancentricai@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Volunteers for Chair?
>>
>>
>>
>> the link is: https://www.w3.org/community/humancentricai/participants
>>
>>
>>
>> You've got to be logged in.  I think there should be a vote at some
>> stage, i'll help with hand-over stuff. Certainly, if others want to put
>> their hand-up for consideration as to create a contested election, then,
>> I'm guessing some time will be required to allow enough for people to put
>> their hat in the ring.
>>
>>
>>
>> perhaps, best wait a bit and follow-up tomorrow and/or off list, if
>> there's no other expressions of interest.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've had stalker issues (simplification) that have had to be addressed by
>> police / court interventions/orders historically, and have done damage in
>> anycase; so don't want to make contact info (other than linkedin  / email);
>> but will provide other contact info privately.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim.h.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 20:29, Michael Robbins <
>> michael@learningpathmakers.org> wrote:
>>
>> I will volunteer to chair the group. I will need your engagement and
>> support to do this, Timothy. I also hope to hear from others who may be
>> familiar lwith the issues and want to step up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding work with the next generation:
>>
>>
>>
>> coda.io <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> And <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> coda.io <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> The best time to plant a tree is now:
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> [image: 1723046338924.jpeg]
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Michael Robbins on LinkedIn: #datadignity #regenerativeai #wethepeople
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> linkedin.com <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> 🙏🏼🌄M <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> On Aug 9, 2024, at 5:59 AM, Timothy Holborn <*timothy.holborn@gmail.com*>
>> wrote: <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Respectfully sir, whilst the opposition, the barriers may have been
>> insurmountable for anyone, I do nonetheless believe that I have indeed
>> failed..  I am troubled by the implications, the consequences. Yet, the
>> responsible approach is to let the group know, that it is indeed, beyond
>> me; whilst offering support for anyone willing and/or interested in taking
>> on the challenge and related 'mantel', as to do otherwise and continue to
>> take the spot - without being equipped to do the job, would be
>> dishonourable.
>> *https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2dkp2jMWRU&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_vponyiYMLdoJ_gGmA-6iwG_&index=5*
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> There are a variety of purposeful, in my mind - universal - values, that
>> i'm committed to seeking to see successfully make the transition through
>> this 'digital transformation' journey, most impactful to younger
>> generations in particular; whom, we owe a debt of care & consideration,
>> that appears to have been absent in all too many ways, over recent years.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>
>> *https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?keywords=%22human+centric%22&index-grp=Public__FULL&type-index=&resultsperpage=100&sortby=date-asc*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> The notion of human centric infosphere (
>> *https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infosphere* ) engineering, has progressed
>> alot; yet, the term is muddied and decisions are made clear by what is
>> resourced, and what is not. Within various international fora, the call for
>> human centric outcomes, whether related to AI - most don't appear to
>> understand semantic web = ai (
>> *https://x.com/DameWendyDBE/status/1172470883610431489* ) & that there's
>> a thing, sometimes known as the 'web of data', but they're issues that can
>> only really be discussed in person with those charged with the
>> responsibility of making decisions, and i can't get there; nor can i fully
>> fund the underlying costs of producing the POC / RD&D reqs associated to
>> demonstrating alternatives to what it is, the assumptions upon which,
>> they're basing their decisions - at least, when employing the english
>> language...  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> i also have a deficit in skills in some areas of importance, which again,
>> is a resourcing related issue; alongside structural problems, associated to
>> the governance frameworks & priorities of organisations that do have the
>> resources, but seemingly find it too hard to make use of them for
>> 'humanitarian ict' / human rights related purposes; as is not a problem,
>> for works that relate to commodification related activity; and then, as
>> noted in the cogai works,
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> *https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cogai/*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I think there's a series of requirements to ensure works on better
>> understanding human consciousness through technological prosthetic
>> apparatus are made safe.  the level of 'competitive engagement' that has
>> led to what i consider to be defeat, has indeed, been overwhelming..  very
>> sad, in my view, but i think also, a fairly surmised position.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I'm not turning to the darkside...  but, if this group is to improve its
>> progress  - there should be someone else taking on the difficult task of
>> chairing the group, to lead curation of its activities. It is also,
>> important to note, that this is a public list, gets consumed by LLMs
>> alongside everything else...  working through the human factors, is a
>> nontrivial undertaking..  🙏🕊️
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Best. <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Timo (timothy holborn.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> *https://www.linkedin.com/in/ubiquitous/*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> On Fri, 9 Aug 2024 at 04:29, Michael Robbins <
>> *michael@learningpathmakers.org*> wrote:
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> “failure” 💔🖤 <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I can’t tell you how many times I’ve given up. Your emails echo deep in
>> my soul, Timothy.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I’ve failed  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I’ve been defeated
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I can’t do this anymore
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I say these things to myself almost every day. But somehow I keep going.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Here’s what I discovered. We can’t solve the problems we are trying to
>> solve with the web. We have to go so much bigger and a different route.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> There is no Northern passage. We must dig the Panama Canal.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> And that doesn’t start with technology, it begins with people. Which is
>> why I spent last year working in an urban school in Washington, DC—working
>> with educators and teaching AI to middle schoolers—to find the edge of
>> opportunity. I found it.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I have discovered so much. I’ll leave the public link intact for now for
>> anyone brave and curious to follow my footsteps. For anyone who wants to
>> know the pathway I’ve charted.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> *Hic sunt dracones… “Here be dragons”
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->*
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> You didn’t fail, Timothy. We have outgrown the web—along with our systems
>> for education and governance in digital society. We have the amazing
>> opportunity to go beyond and build what comes next for learning, digital
>> ecosystems, and democracy.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> You haven’t failed, Timothy. There is no way through with the web that
>> has carried us so far. We must leave that canoe behind for the journey
>> ahead.  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Onward 🌄 <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Michael  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> *https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwrxyz*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2024, at 10:48 AM, Timothy Holborn <*timothy.holborn@gmail.com*>
>> wrote: <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Hi Michael, <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> The list is public - so, if you don't want to share the contents provided
>> to the list, maybe you'll have to do something with the link...  just FYI.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> As the list is public, there's alot i can't get into.  Indeed, i think
>> that's been an on-going issue generally with W3C works & similar, as the
>> real human stuff, the use-cases that try to address serious problems,
>> crimes like human trafficking related issues; the details, aren't for a
>> public list.  indeed also, those pertaining to children, or the many other
>> areas where our humanity, gets truely tested - not merely on the 'sunny
>> days', but rather, how our technology serves us, as members of our humanity
>> - when things aren't all ok...
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> it seems the ideals believed, are that a wallet will sort it all out -
>> don't worry if you loose your phone, they can get you access to the wallet
>> again - i assume..?
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> therein also, leading to another area of thought, that's seemingly not
>> really allowed.  i'm very sad about a great many things that have been
>> meaningful to me.  I don't think i'll be found wrong, at least, not in the
>> end - but whether and how the WORLD wide web, will grow, is unknown; and,
>> i've survived, although barely at times, some fairly serious attacks as the
>> adversaries - go get this wallet thing done, seemingly because it'll
>> protect human rights, support our values - better - even if i disagree..
>> or, perhaps, until later, idk.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> W3C can produce 'recommendations', or methods to do stuff.  In my time
>> with Web-Payments, WebID, RWW, Credentials, SchemaGen and various other
>> bits and pieces (inc. the old webizen initiative) ;  i remember the
>> journey, few were there, billions now impacted.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> personally,  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> i've got a workstation that i'll use to adjust my deliberations around
>> the reality of what is, rather than what i'd hoped, as articulated back in
>> 2013,14, etc.  but, certainly not enough, not well enough.. wanting to
>> build parts, in a less than peaceful space.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> The workstation has a few a4500/a4000 GPUs, dual xeon, 256Gb ram, etc.
>> once i've done some background work on it, i'll be setting it up to be a
>> private & personal AI server;  there's some bits & pieces
>> *https://github.com/WebizenAI/*  basically, building upon the old
>> 'read-write web' stack, then making various adjustments - inc. wireguard
>> related personal networking, probably also patch in nymtech - seems, sadly,
>> some of the elders - well, maybe we do need a new bbs age like - 'new
>> internet' initiative.. Maybe, it's essential that those who remember the
>> dial up days, DIY, etc.  get stuck into making an alternative, just in case
>> digital slavery does become the dystopian underpinnings to a realm we don't
>> want.  i dont know.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> there's a list of objectives outlined in posts
>> *https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-humancentricai/*  - one of
>> the major things that led to this group, was that i wanted to get human
>> rights documents put into RDF, so that they could be used when forming
>> agreements with one-another in social-web implementations (where there's no
>> 3rd party platform intermediaries required between all human
>> relationships); then finding, in the WSIS / UN related stuff, a range of
>> problems that in my view, have proven themselves to have been
>> overwhelmingly well prosecuted, over a very long period of time..  So, I
>> didn't want to make a platform where hosts couldn't kick bad actors off it,
>> nor did I want to own the human rights instruments as defined for digital
>> transformation, or the ai safety protocols that were / are needed, etc..
>> Yet, the expectations, need to be reasonable, and, i don't think the
>> dynamics related to that stuff, will be first discussed on a public w3c
>> list, although, i hope at some stage - it does happen & that it does
>> in-fact lead to good outcomes, not just rebranding processes for old
>> programs. <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> brave new world... IMHO: Asymmetrical pervasive surveillance is a
>> remarkable feat of engineering - doesn't have much to do with STEM, but
>> nonetheless, remarkable stuff...  how people can suffer so much, without
>> means to have disputes resolved peacefully in courts of law; as others,
>> apparently know everything..  they're values, are just so distant to me..
>> i've been losing hope.  I started, the renewed efforts in 2010 in a manner
>> linked with presenting: *https://vimeo.com/30416090* on the screens, at
>> an event of importance, CHOGM 2011, having been handed 'the commission'...
>> but that's now, so many years ago...  its not like, there hasn't been an
>> opportunity, or that we didn't produce the tools to empower them to do so;
>> they just had other priorities...  apparently, making them - better
>> people..  so, ok...
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> but, i don't think the technological infrastructure is at all
>> human-centric; and, it seems any honourable effort to address it, has a
>> negligible chance of success, irrespective of whether the words appear in
>> marketing materials, or whatever else, linked with promotions...
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Telecoms, selling ISDN connections at $1000 PCM, weren't promoting ADSL
>> for $50 PCM, in-fact, they got in the way.  Cable Companies, didn't help
>> VOD systems; and CDNs, wrecked the international investigative journalism
>> industry, as pricing control was centralised into the US via companies that
>> didn't make any money - but - owned the global marketsphere & its
>> advertising revenue markets...  so, no funding - just, public relations as
>> a replacement, in an ecosystem that seems to prefer people forget, than
>> tell the truth...
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> The group now has no chair.  If any member would like to become the
>> chair, they just need to log in & goto
>> *https://www.w3.org/community/humancentricai/participants*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> officially, there should be a vote - via teleconf - but, we've not
>> managed to do that yet generally..  if people are interested in a teleconf,
>> let me know, or indeed also, feel welcome to have one without me ;)
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I think, if the WORLD wide web is to survive...  that is, something that
>> is for all members of our human family..  then, well.  its 'the people',
>> who will have to go do what needs to be done, to make sure that happens for
>> the betterment of our human family, in a manner that is representative of
>> our values..  and truth, at least seeking to work through it - even if it
>> upsets someone, or has serious repercussive implications upon others -
>> well, shouldn't mean its not allowed; and somehow, the values, the aspects
>> of life that are of most importance, to need attention - without having to
>> expose it all to public lists, where people look for weaknesses in their
>> combat fantasies seeking to defeat 'competitors', for profits, or
>> whatever...   at times, its almost like i should start selling books
>> declared to be god..  not sure what the digitally transformed alternative
>> is, but, regardless, i think the objective overall is to seek to ensure
>> however its defined, its able to be commodified.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> i'm just unable to maintain a high level of output, without resources,
>> trying to smile & be friendly to all, whilst so troubled by the
>> implications of what has in-fact happened in the past, morally sought, if
>> honourable, to be silent about it.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> so, i think someone who is 'unburdened by the past' or whatever the
>> statement is, is needed for a w3c human centric AI effort - if indeed, it's
>> something sought to be maintained at all.  Certainly also, if there is no
>> interest, the group can be closed, per w3c rules & processes.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> FWIW also;  I'm also looking for expressions of interest for 'web
>> civics', which i set-up in 2014 as there wasn't any organisation in the
>> internet governance ecosystems to support the production of free software,
>> as required for human rights related purposes.  i recently spoke about
>> humanitarian ict at the IETF119; and had planned to work on ontology for an
>> 'agent discovery protocol' ecosystem, intended to impact a few things
>> including 'human centric internet' as it was termed by IGF - but it seemed
>> like, a few competitive alternatives then emerged - and, i'm troubled by
>> many of the dynamics brought about as a consequence of credentials being
>> commercialised without the other pieces - for reasons, i'm not sure is
>> appropriate to go into, on these lists.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> BRICS has alot of people within participating jurisdictions, last I
>> checked, it's all associated to members of our human family who exist in
>> our WORLD..  whether & how the World Wide Web & related ecosystems grow, or
>> fail to, idk. As noted, I feel I've been defeated.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I've failed.  apologies, but i did my best..
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> best wishes. <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Tim. <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> *https://www.linkedin.com/in/ubiquitous/*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 22:59, Michael Robbins <
>> *michael@learningpathmakers.org*> wrote:
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Timothy, <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Thank you for your thoughtful email. I understand and share your
>> frustrations. I’ve been on a parallel journey for the last decade+ as a
>> social entrepreneur working at the intersection of education, the web, and
>> community change.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I have reached a set of extensive conclusions and operating hypotheses
>> related to your remarks and the mission of this group. Much of my knowledge
>> and wisdom comes from direct experience and failure. It is complex and a
>> LOT to explain.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I have put as much as possible into a Coda repository. This is not for
>> public distribution but I’m talking a leap of faith and sharing it with you
>> and the rest of this group. I call it the Yantismor Codex.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> coda.io <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I’m continuing to advance parts of this as possible with a fww close
>> collaborators. It’s challenging given my staunch commitment to the public
>> good and exodus from our age of technofeudalism.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I would welcome a discussion with everyone who is interested in learning
>> more and exploring together.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Michael  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> *https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwrxyz*
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>
>>
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> On Aug 8, 2024, at 4:57 AM, Timothy Holborn <*timothy.holborn@gmail.com*>
>> wrote: <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>  <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> FYI - FWIW - just figured out the archives link:
>> *https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/advanced_search?resultsperpage=100&sortby=date-asc*
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> On Thu, 8 Aug 2024 at 18:54, Timothy Holborn <*timothy.holborn@gmail.com*>
>> wrote: <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> It's been reported to me that the group needs to have a chair-person,
>> whilst i note, i've seen other groups without one.  I think this is an
>> administrative requirement..
>>
>> There's a bit to update the group about, write a post about..  or perhaps
>> a few posts...  but i'd like to step-down as chair, which means there needs
>> to be a replacement.
>>
>> This doesn't mean that I'm unsupportive of efforts to bring about
>> technological infrastructure that may reasonably support a variety of, what
>> I'd consider to be universal ideals..  Yet, the conclusion that I've come
>> to, again, overall is that i' feeling overwhelmingly defeated.
>>
>> I'm not presently sure how to best articulate, circumstances,
>> deliberations, considerations & implications; that are complex, and in some
>> areas of most importance, have serious privacy implications; whilst others,
>> pertain to confidences, and behaving honourably is important to me.
>>
>> I started work on what i later called 'human centric' ecosystems, in
>> 2000, due to a relatives work on how synaptic nerve-cells work which led
>> him to be awarded a nobel prize, i was inspired by that work, alongside
>> other factors - and went about designing an ecosystem for online data
>> storage, that was based upon people owning their own data, and sharing
>> content by links.  There were many facets involved in these first 'crescent
>> network' / iBank designs, i was very young, troubled, naive & overall, just
>> starting out, after several years in the ICT sector as a young person..
>> These works developed through an initial attempt, that led to an
>> involvement with 'video on demand' and even 'streaming games' (soon
>> thereafter); alongside wifi, and all sorts of other things; but, to
>> characterise a fundamental dispute, there was opposing ideas; whilst i
>> wanted fairness, means to empower people, the opposite point of view was to
>> use the opportunity to manipulatively aggregate & seek to 'own it all', as
>> a super aggregator...  this was a problem, that i've been struggling to
>> ensure that at least alternatives exist to, since then.  It appears the
>> consequence of various complex issues now leads to a thin-client 'wallet'
>> based model being monopolistically deployed, and, i don't understand how to
>> support access to justice, means for people to store & be able to use in a
>> court of law, even if in poverty, electronic evidence pertaining to their
>> lives to lawful remedy, peacefully and in a timely manner; as does in-turn
>> also, impact our capacity to support STEM, fair-trading, electronic
>> agreements where both parties define terms rather than asymmetrical
>> agreements that may vary whenever; and beyond the many complex social
>> implications, there are also significant issues pertaining to engineering
>> systems to better support human consciousness via our technological
>> infrastructure that's increasingly acting as a prosthetic dependency upon
>> life, the lives of people, etc.
>>
>> the outcome is also, that whilst i feel defeated - those who may be
>> considered to have 'won', also do so in an ecosystem that poorly supports
>> accountability, provenance tracking & personal responsibility.  Whilst
>> seemingly good for some to 'make money' or indeed others, to merely get
>> more promotions - it seems, such beneficiaries can always claim they've
>> always been doing it, and so long as they've got the resources from the
>> past wins, it doesn't really matter - whilst seeking to maintain an
>> honourable approach, provide means to deliver outcomes where people can own
>> the software (licensing, patent-pool considerations, etc) pertaining to
>> their own thoughtware - well - that's work that's done in poverty, without
>> funding or safety and the outcome of these fundamental requirements means
>> that these foundations need to be ownable, by the 'data subject',
>> themselves...  their own thoughtware...  their own 'api', defined by them -
>> without undue interference or coercion.
>>
>> means, in-turn, to build the test apparatus needed to better understand
>> consciousness..  but how can that be done safely, given the environmentals
>> generally..  I really don't know.
>>
>> Indeed, whether its called 'human centric', which i termed due to needing
>> to have a condition in the earlier W3C work to ensure modalities of
>> outcomes were broader than 'platform owned' or 'corporation centric' or
>> indeed also, government centric - as the intellectual property for natural
>> persons, wasn't supported - so, that's why a new term was needed, and i
>> thought about it; notes can be found by searching the lists - noting, i've
>> just gone to the link, it appears to have changed..  anyhow.  As noted,
>> feeling defeated and due also to the code of conduct, I don't think
>> discussion about some of the related issues can be discussed - regardless
>> of science or reality...
>>
>> two last notes.
>>
>> with respect to protecting the human rights & interests of children and
>> in-turn also, identity development - which is a term pertaining to
>> psychology / social sciences.  I understand efforts are being made to apply
>> the wallet to all things internet.  i don't think itll deliver what they
>> say it'll fix, but, if that's not the point of doing it - i probably can't
>> talk about it anyway.
>>
>> a straight forward solution is to use RDF on domains or even posts, to
>> provide information about whether the content is suitable for children; ie:
>> ratings. and then, have a browser plugin or OS tool that looks for these
>> files, and then makes decisions based on what it says.  this means ontology
>> needs to be done for it, and somme other tooling - fairly straight forward,
>> should probably be done by schemaorg | could also be done in a way that
>> means it associates to particular posts in a social media system, rather
>> than just the high-level domain / URL.
>>
>> also; there's a bunch of stuff that i don't particularly want to see as
>> an adult, therefore, restricting this approach to merely considering the
>> interests of children as a child focused outcome; may in-fact, diminish the
>> ability for the outcome to do so - for children.   Therefore, i considered
>> the notion of terming any such initiative a personalisation solution
>> 'myweb', which therein has a particularly attentive focus upon delivering
>> outcomes to address the needs of young people.   The outcome would require
>> websites to install the file and/or ontological supports, much like
>> accessibility projects.
>>
>> soe notes about it - still poorly drafted (imho)
>> *https://docs.google.com/document/d/1c1Afo-bja_jksBEynHyG7nBDz71TAPOZYkagdoh4e6A/edit*
>>
>>
>> AND finally,  I apologise for not having been able to achieve more since
>> i instigated the creation of the group.  There has been alot of work in the
>> background, i'll go into it at some later stage.  But, should others have a
>> belief in the notion called 'human centric' AI, Internet, etc..  then -
>> finding someone willing to take on the role of Chair, would be very much
>> welcomed and i'll do my best to support it, but that's not delivering
>> much atm.  so, I guess, this is an honourable result..
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I have managed to obtain the 2nd hand parts to build a workstation that
>> is suitable for local LLM related AI work.  I'm hopeful that i'll be able
>> to build an environment that'll be good for art, RD&D, etc.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> but this is different, to seeking to...  well.  I'm very troubled about
>> the implications associated to some of my earlier works and the direction
>> the world is going in generally, the implications, etc.  as i'm defeated,
>> it appears the higher-level consensus must be, that i'm wrong; otherwise,
>> why would the resources go into the stuff thats troubling, rather than
>> solutions for tooling to help deliver SDGs and do all the good things -
>> unless, the so called 'promoter' of such sorts of solutions, is wrong.
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> But thankyou for your time.  It's been a difficult ~12 years or so of W3C
>> works..  i'll write about my personal deliberations otherwise, somewhere
>> else.  I am happy to help any incoming chair learn more about the stuff
>> they may not know re: w3c, etc.  where i can help..
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> I'll write about my view of what i intended re: human centric / human
>> centric ai, sometime soon.  but, i do worry, that work with the best of
>> intention - can seemingly be perverted - its like, inventing a hammer, then
>> seeing it go to market as a new weapon, rather than something that's really
>> helpful, when seeking to build homes...  notwithstanding the moral hazard
>> with oversimplifications...
>> <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> 🙏 <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>   <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>> Timo. <https://coda.io/d/_d7HrfjQE5Tu/Student-Exploration_subN->
>>
>>
>
> --
> Gabriel Lopes
> *Interoperability as Jam's sessions!*
> *Each system emanating the music that crosses itself, instrumentalizing
> scores and ranges...*
> *... of Resonance, vibrations, information, data, symbols, ..., Notes.*
>
> *How interoperable are we with the Music the World continuously offers to
> our senses?*
> *Maybe it depends on our foundations...?*
>