Re: Sense work - update

Namaste BVK,

I wasn't sure what the best modality for my response might best be.  Whilst
I'm sure that there's alternative preferences of the audience, I've elected
to post my response in the way I produced it.  The shorter-hand responses
to your notes specifically, are provided in-line (with your email, that i
am responding to) below.   In summary, if and as I get time to do so, I'm
working through the process of figuring out a 'mapping' strategy to
implement a test file & related system.  This involves a great deal of
thinking time, as I consider the various aspects of how best to do it;
noting that there aren't any other contributors helping me do this
practical work at present, and this is one of many priorities.. As is
in-turn also, my works on writing about it and engaging with others in the
hopes that it'll help deliver better outcomes sooner; whilst also, seeking
to mitigate against any potential opportunists who may seek to do something
similar, but in a way that they own as commercial &
proprietary intellectual property, which, when it comes to formats for
making use of language, is fairly instrumental to whether or not we're
going to be able to support freedom of thought, as a species, as is
impactful to human rights.  But, just because i'm sharing the useful
derivatives of my work, this does not infer that anyone who may be seeking
to advance works in this field will similarly do so also...  and all people
need to eat, some are fortunate enough also to be in a position where
they've got to be considerate of ensuring the means for their children to
be cared for by them; and our ability to better understand one-another is
presently more limited than could otherwise be the case, if these human
centric (ai) works do in-fact yield the sort of outcome that my efforts are
so focused upon bringing about...  as illustrated, by my efforts and indeed
also, creative works.

In May 2016 i presented this presentation to a melbourne technology
'meet-up', it still presents well some of the related considerations at a
high-level.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1RzczQPfygLuowu-WPvaYyKQB0PsSF2COKldj1mjktTs/edit?usp=sharing

There are of course many other artifacts as noted on the peace
infrastructure list.  I note also, that i've just started a human centric
health list - which is private, as i'll be using myself as the test
subject; going through the entire history since 2010, which, beyond the
dehumanising implications should it be made necessarily public, would also
act to disaffect many others - as the circumstance of a person's life, is
not about that person alone; indeed, the implications of various factors
that are of instrumental importance for health-systems to be made able to
support articulation and consideration by clinicians, are fairly broad, and
whilst i've never thought it a good idea to go that way to begin with,
situation has changed;
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_3043

I assume the term 'health' is intended to implicitly mean, support for the
wellbeing and good standing of clinicians and patients, for the best & most
appropriate treatment protocols and other strategies that engender
outcomes; as such, there's going to be alot to do...  but not all,
publically.  At least, I hope not.. but I guess we'll have to see what
happens, it's certainly been a very difficult journey and many have a
different definition of the golden rule to my own.... i think, ensuring
support for 'do unto others' is vital, for human rights, peace, means to
address corruption and various cyber-security and socioeconomic challenges,
yet, some will not agree as such; its imperative to ensure support is
focused upon 'reality check tech', as an option; that should, for all
intents and purposes, be allowed and available.

The world moves quickly, engendering this 'digital transformation' upon us
all.

This is certainly a multi-disciplinary field of endeavour.  The
implication, has multi-dimensional characteristics - which is in-effect,
part of what the useful derivatives are seeking to better illuminate,
supportively.

At some of those levels, the work may be considered as engineering improved
 supports for 'mind', as is in-effect a sub-topic of the studies
investigated by the SBoC ( Scientific Basis of Consciousness) and  BPM
(Biological Physics and Meaning) lists & groups...  As you may remember,
the general topic is something that I had been seeking to further
investigate via those lists, including efforts to support the works of
Raggett (W3C CogAI) in earlier, although recent stages,  of getting stuck
into it...  Yet, it is not seemingly the role of these groups to get stuck
into works for the development of useful apparatus or tooling, rather, the
discussion is more about other things, areas, deliberations and
pursuits....

At yet a different series of levels;  late last year / early this year, i
re-started work on coding an implementation - building upon derivatives
formed in-part, as a consequence of my long-term works, however any such
consideration is not at all intended to be neglectful of the remarkable
works done by many, although also - the very few, when one considers the
number of minds involved in creating these works by comparison to the
number consequently affected... as users or consumers, etc...

Whilst it is my hope and desire to implement something specific, something
branded - it is also my desire to ensure that any such approach is done in
such a way that acts to support human rights.  The reason for the use of
the term 'human rights' is that those instruments incorporate many of the
international values  that could otherwise be exhaustively listed out;
which isn't desired, as most just want the tl;dr version.

nonetheless; given the systems i'm working on support currencies and
advanced cyber-security measures, including means to protect the biometric
identifiers of persons and their use (protection from misuse); there's
media analysis, IPv6 subnets, domains and various other apparatus required
at a basic level, that can then be expanded upon - forming the basics for
'host' providers or alternatively per my prior works 'knowledge banking'
providers; empowered with the tools to perform the duties of that role.  In
the ecosystems I'm seeking to deploy, there's a values agreement between
hosts, but they're otherwise not part of the same 'company' or
'corporation', rather, members of an alliance, committed to shared values.
In that ecosystem, there's a need for hygiene, as such, if an end-user who
buys their system (that nonetheless requires a host to support many of its
functions) is believed to have committed a sufficiently serious breach of
basic rules, invoking a situation where they're no longer able to be
supported by the host, then, there needs to be somewhere to send that
person; as the effect of systems today, have extraordinary impacts and
influences on the lives and capacities of persons.  In my opinion, a host
provider should not be the arbitrator of law, it is not a court, nor a
law-enforcement entity; and is in-turn also, subject to rule of law, as are
all others.

So these considerations become part of the underlying rationale for the
on-going commitment to seeking to ensure appropriate open-standards are
available, as to support - human rights..  in-effect... Whilst other
systems may not function the same way, it is important that users are not
trapped into platforms and/or providers, as a form of safety protocol; of
which, in my opinion, there can be many...

So, in the systems that i've been working on; noting, that the designs have
'pro' systems, not unlike the old silicon graphics or NeXT machines that
were expensive, yet awesome at the time, enabling capabilities far beyond
alternatives - as may now also, provide a sense of the opportunities for
various incorporated 'groups', seeking specialised solutions for whatever
it is their group, business, lab, etc.  does...

These more advanced 'group' systems, as is thought useful for applications
such as the 'peace infrastructure project', are built upon the availability
of underlying systems; that support human agency, selfhood, personal &
private AI agents...

In-turn, there's a form of system that makes use of various parts that have
been produced earlier, but they are put together in a way that is different
to how others have done so, as a consequence of those works.  irrespective
as to why that has occurred, the priorities, values systems or whatever it
may be that can provide meaning & explanation - it is my opinion, that the
ability to do so well, requires more work to address the many areas where
solutions appear to be absent.  the role of w3c in these areas, is not so
much in the definition of products in the traditional way, that is what i
sought to achieve via web-civics (est. 2014) as is now being advanced by
efforts to produce 'digital public goods'; rather, W3C exists to remedy the
issue whereby patents held by whomever may appear and act to assert rents
upon users of technology and/or other unwanted outcomes; that via w3c
https://www.w3.org/membership/list/  &
https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Patent-Policy-20200915/  seeks to remedy.
The benefit for these members being the ability to define common
'standards' to implement particular functions, in a way that is therefore
made able to be interoperable between systems, platforms, implementers &
related stakeholders.

Yet, the way this process often works - is via the efforts of unpaid
volunteers, as is described also by Manu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjbICcGanIg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYdXZ3-U-oQ

Whilst others then get involved as works develop into useful resources,
that pass the measure of whether or not they can be advanced by others
working on behalf of the patent pool members (one would assume, paid to do
so); this does indeed take time, and sometimes also - the outcomes can
change, as the designs are then subject to various negotiations via the w3c
membership pool, where people previously involved may not be participants,
prior to becoming a w3c recommendation and/or 'web standard'...  therein -
note, the focus overall, is that the R&D pipeline for works of critical
importance to efforts that seek outcomes such as to protect freedom of
thought and//or human rights; are done in the public domain, which thereby
seek to ensure that these works cannot otherwise be patented for profit by
others along the way; and should those efforts be successful, that the
consequence becomes protected by the patent pools of the w3c membership
group, whose collective interests are to ensure protections against any
improper (future) claims...

Personally, whilst the process has incurred great sacrifice, there has also
been a level of protection in association to the expression of my
thoughtware in areas that have intended to have the goal of supporting the
creation of technology for the betterment of humanity, for the protection
of human rights, albeit in ways not yet realised, in that other - far
smaller - entities who have made attempts to claim that they have some sort
of vital Intellectual property, which is often a false claim but
irrelevant, have appeared to 'run for the hills' or find some other method
to execute, what many put down to 'commercial behaviours', as they were
fine with making attempts to exploit a poverty stricken poor worker doing
something that appeared to provide resources they wanted for profits; but,
that they weren't willing to go up against the W3C Patent Pool holder
corpus, with the same or similar methods..

I might also note that whilst 'AI' or 'artificial intelligence' has now
become a 'hot topic', with many seeking opportunities to engender vast
wealth and god like power over others...  AI, is in-fact, not new.

Whilst most people are aware of 'web standards' as a concept - due to their
use of web-browsers and consequently also, HTML - the 'presentation layer'
of technology standards works, is not the entire body of works in
question.  indeed, underneath 'the web' is a vast collection of 'AI' works,
historically known as the 'semantic web', then later rebranded 'linked
data', although - that only describes a piece of it; alongside, the 'web of
data', which never really made declarative statements about the
implications relating to AI, that have been developing across many fields
of application - well beyond the 'web browser', overall...

So, initially - i wasn't really planning to get too involved with w3c
efforts again, anytime soon.  I felt, that my years of efforts to seek to
ensure open-standards for payments, credentials / verifiable claims and
'ai' related online data-storage techniques (rww) as an individual free of
any obligations that would have negatively impacted my ability to advocate
for the needs of human beings; albeit, at great cost..  should have been
enough, and to some-degree i think still is...  but i believe i saw
something happening, post-covid, in the wsis2023 sessions, where questions
that were being grappled with, seemingly leading to a rethink on the future
of internet governance; and the means to address both, AI challenges as
well as broader supports that i can only surmise must be about support for
human rights, were seemingly without insight...

and whilst, it could certainly be the case that the person lacking insight
is in fact myself...

there appeared to be a range of requirements or solutions, that did not
seemingly have good answers; at that United Nations - Digital
Transformation Agenda level; and, i am not comfortable with the idea or
risk profile associated with any alternative attempts i may make to address
those problems simply via my web civics efforts; or similar.  that the
opportunity to address the problems via the existing internet governance
apparatus that could be more quickly uplifted to meet the challenges, was
something that I thought I could at least seek to do, or should seek to do,
as a matter of seeking to act honourably...

Doing so, does not mean that there are not challenges; both old &
emergent.  nor does it mean that w3c and/or ISOC is 'fit for purpose'
and/or going to be supportively able or equipped to tend to various
requirements of importance, morally and otherwise, yet one must assume that
best efforts will be made at all times, to seek to ensure 'fit for purpose'
outcomes.

There are no known alternatives to W3C, ISOC & by extension IETF, etc...
Whilst the challenges do, to me, appear to be fairly overwhelming with
respect to the desires expressed by many, in many areas, I am not aware of
better means to seek to ensure the best possible outcomes, notwithstanding
the issues disaffecting the ability to resource works better alongside the
many other areas of consideration & concern.

Indeed, I realised, recently, that we are heading towards a situation where
any human being will potentially only be allowed some form of relationship
with another human being via a mediator, a platform of some kind.
Imagine if this sort of socioeconomic rule was put upon any other
species...  whilst realising, that this is in-fact the consequence of what
it is we, as a human family via technology, have been working to create;
with no known viable alternatives...   whilst also, these mediators,
intemediatries - we don't even have the means to clearly articulate the
values that define them, and through them, us.

So whilst the connection between the importance of ensuring proper support
for language; in association to human centric and human centric ai systems
and agents may be difficult to explain better,

Perhaps this is only a consequence of the lack of work that has previously
otherwise been done, to do so.  after all, if there was a fit for purpose
solution available today, i'd far prefer to make use of it; rather than do
the work, in the most honourable way i can think of to do it;
notwithstanding the terms associated with that method of doing so, as to
seek to ensure that there are better means through which we may then
in-turn make use of, to better understand one-another; as is, in my view, a
matter of importance for all members of our human family...  and indeed
also, the social structures upon which we define & make use of values, as
are articulated by what we do and how it is that we are in-turn made able
to be heard.  These systems are not simply about natural agents, although
foundationally centred upon the needs of humanity; but therefore also,
considerate about the declarative requirements for other agents, whether
they be fiduciary and/or incorporated; and/or otherwise, as software
agents. By ensuring software agents are able to process explicitly defined
meanings, the consequences of what may occur if these artifacts are not
structurally available to said agents, is at a minimum, considered likely
to be different.

which in-turn, has an impact on reality, and our means to address
corruption; as is required for productivity and indeed also, human rights.


On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 02:32, BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop) <sastry.bvk@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Namaste Tim
>
>
>
> 1. Thanks for the good work and plan for Data Format compilation
> addressing:
>
>
>
>        The container  design- format which would include;
>
>          - all alphabetic characters, including vector representation and
> likely also unicode
>
>            character information, etc...
>
>
>
>         - all words, including the phonetic representation, geo-spatial
> history of words and
>
>           meanings, parts of speech, antonyms, etc.
>
>
>
> *Note*: What we are discussing here is pretty much highly advanced
> research themes, with multidisciplinary links, even at IVY league
> institutions.
>

As far as i'm aware, this form of approach has never been done before.  If
I am wrong and there is an existing paper or implementation, then i'd
welcome finding it - as there's alot of work to do still, to make
functionally useful outputs.  also, there's a burden about how much i can
do as an individual, and the terms / expectations relating to how this work
is done (unpaid) limits the ability to seek any additional resources to get
more done than i am able to do otherwise alone...  whilst noting also, the
business models and various other related factors do play an important role
as to whether or not fit for purpose outcomes can be created...  and/or
progressed, even if the output isn't all together fit for purpose... more
moreover, merely progress in the general direction.

I hope the previously provided links have been reviewed, as to both get a
sense of what it is this approach is premised upon being able to support
and/or furnish, alongside the means to check it out yourself and see how
existing examples related to other historical examples for other
applications, function.  If you've not been able to do so, i'd be happy to
arrange a zoom to do so, whilst working through any questions you might
have about it, although, i might also need to prepare fragments together
some better way, at least, that would ideally be the case..  again, noting,
only so many hours of my consciousness available particularly given also,
the resource circumstances available to make progress generally.



> Such research  needs support and adequate proactive funding for a  ‘TEAM’
>  if the ideas need to go practical,  commercially valued and fulfil the
>  expressed global concerns in  Paul’s slides. Corporate funded research has
> always tags of IP and NDA and commercial interests to share and explore.
> Even in Open sources- NGO approach. Greed teams will always find a way to
> circumvent the ‘Value Centricity’ of work ! Irrespective of the fine prints
> on the document. To that extent, all this exchange is still  a
> ‘CONCERN-VOICING, NEEDING A STRONG BACKING’. I don’t have a clue on ‘how
> to’ of this point.
>

w3c does not fund works, other than as is provided by the w3c
infrastructure to support the instantiation and development of projects,
that may later be advanced via interest group / working group activities,
that are in-turn supported by w3c members.  I am also unsure to what extent
and/or purposes, w3c works are best able to assist with this piece and/or
related implications; and do not think that my ability to better understand
what that might be, is able to be done better at this stage.  it will take
some time to advance work, and thereby, hopefully as a team / community -
work to figure it out.  noting, all work done via w3c relates to the use of
language; and indeed also, there are other w3c communities whose work is
specifically focused upon language, although, in different ways...

There is a future potential outcome via ISOC to create a SIG (extending
from previous works in the area, up until around 2018-9) that could support
web civics works in this area, which in-turn could act to help inform
standards works processes for w3c; but,

1.  That process is unlikely to yield results - even if successful (which
is not assured) - until next year.
2. There's an apparatus that is ideally required to power those systems, in
a 'human centric' manner, and I'm stuck on implementation until I can sort
out the language issue (to support natural language ontologies).

systems also need to support provenance and this isn't seemingly desirable
by all whom may seek to progress the works.

note also - the w3c list won't be aware of the slides by paul werbos.


>
> Would ‘National Governance Regulation o and Nations Owning Responsibility
> of  ‘Localization of Technology in their Nation ’-  be an answer ? I don’t
> know. It is too complex.
>

The works to define a container format, in-effect, is different to the
political structures of how such forms of derivatives may later be employed
and/or made employable.


>
> Who then should be proactive funding agencies here ?  The institutions
> –which suffer Identity Loss by Inappropriate Language Modelling by
> Techno-linguists.
>

W3C works generally seek to be extremely specific, yet this doesn't
necessarily yield results in an 'as intended' manner.  one such example may
be the meaningful definition of 'identity', for example...

>
>
> In other words, Technology is good for ‘Scripture-Prayer- Language’ as a
> vehicle for outreach convenience.  But ‘Techno-linguist’ cannot use
> ‘Technology’ to usurp the power of  ‘Religion- Scholar’ to ‘Interpret and
> Destroy the Essential message of Sacred Text, Create- Spread Confusion
> and Chaos by unfiltered- unaudited – damaging -search outputs’. This is
> where ‘ Techno-corporate glo-co-nomics [ global- corporate-economics] are
> at war with ‘ALL  RELIGIONS- Spiritual Sacred Scriptural Traditions at the
> base of Peace Infrastructure’.
>

re: https://www.sacred-texts.com/ etc...  Such examples illustrate the
importance of spatio-temporal context as being of such great importance
when seeking to ensure systems are able to present better inferences with
respect to intended meanings...



>
>
> I as an insider of a specific ‘Religion- Tradition Community’ using the
> sacred text : Srimad Bhagavad-Gita : Book of Yoga’s in the ancient
> Language: Samskrutham.  I have  seen / continue to see the damage that has
> been caused/ being caused  by ISO -639 model approach and ‘Root design
> challenge of ‘ROMANIZED REPRESENTATION OF NON-ENGLISH LANGUAGES USED IN
> PRAYERS – RITUALS – SIRITUAL PRACTICES’. Technology of Language is NOT
> limited to  a partial side view of ‘ CHARACTER SCRIPT=  Visual of
> Character- Display form representation on screen for print / transmission
> needs  and ‘CHARACTER SOUND=  Voice of Character- in Speech  form of
> conversation for audio transmission needs  and dictation. OCR has serious
> limitation just like screen readers and voice transcribers / MT exercises.
>
>
>
> 2. I notice medical and linguists use a slightly different model of
> speech anatomy- linking to
>
>     character set. In this case ‘International Phonetic Alphabet / Roman
> Character set as anchor’.
>

This method is not intended to create one package of informatics for all
languages or other 'ai package' topic and/or subject, rather, the objective
is to find and/or define a method that can be generically employed for any
embodiment of knowledge, in relation to a particular topic or field; and
that, in-turn, these assets can be then discovered and downloaded to be
processed locally by an appropriately defined 'ai agent' in relation to
whatever task that agent is presently being sought to do / perform,
et.al...

I note also; that, i intended to produce a protocol solution for
'permissive commons' which was, from my perspective, the purposeful useful
benefit of the works developed as 'decentralised identifiers', although
that work has in-part gone a different direction, and i'm yet to find
resources who are able to help with producing something like a GIT DID
(SSH/PGP) method; noting the abundance of GIT on systems generally,
alongside its existing, very useful featureset.  Whilst 'commons' in this
meaning, could be the information relating to a marital relationship or a
set of laws by a parliament or encyclopedic information about any given
topic or subject area; this social level, is considered to have different
requirements, to the intended purpose and/or goals of this HDF5 related
pursuit, without means to be better addressed until systems can be created
using natural language as required for developing the systems themselves
(ie: ontologies, etc.).


>
> 3.  I am thinking deeply on First Issue of ‘Human Language Modelling’
>
>         – as ‘Thought to Articulation’ [I speak my mind/ I say my
> thought]
>
>               Which finds its mechanistic manifestation of ‘Language
> elements and Processes’
>
>                     Per Anatomy of Speaker (in this case Humans)  and
>
>                            Branching out to Specific Linguistic diversity
> and applications.
>
>     Is this not the primary expectation of ‘Humanized Robo, running AGI ?
> understanding  -
>
>      responding by Voiced Speech in Language context.
>
   This is ‘ Language Modelling used as Cognitive Linguistics  Paninian
> Samskruth- Language –
>
>    Grammar design’; which historically stands at the mother root of
> classical Greek, Latin and
>
>    deeply connected to Classical Hebrew .  [The Tower of Babel – Theory of
> Languages has no
>
>     relevance as far as this discussion is concerned. I prefer to hold on
> to ‘Logos/ Word’ concept
>
>     from Old Testament : John : 1-1.] The sacredness of the ‘alphabet
> needs to be respected as much
>
>     as the ‘sound of the alphabet’. This cannot be handled in isolated
> lanes.
>

Part of what you are outlining there, is the ability to define systems that
support human agency, as is articulated via the lens of your mind..  or
something similar, in-effect...

Yet, the HDF5 related works, is about the ability to have the software
resources, the datasets, available in a format for software that depends
upon it, as an underlying resource, in-order to support the means to create
software articulations of the sorts of considerations that you speak of
above.

there are complexities in how to best illustrate the technical implications
in relation to this constituency of a broader technical ecosystem; that
in-turn provides support for broader 'liberal arts' considerations
overall...

i guess, the take-away is, that i'm not aware of any solution available
today; whereby, your computer system can download a resource file that
contains all of the underlying informatics required, to support the ability
for users to make interactions and derivative outputs (software, documents,
files, communications, etc.) build upon the availability of an underlying
spatio-temporal, vector/graph package of informatics about language(s);
that thereby provides the resources required, to be encoded into any files
people create and share, with the intention of seeking to be understood in
relation to the expressly - sought to be defined - meaning...



>
>
> 4. May be we need a little extended thinking on ‘What aspects- elements
> of Human Languages
>
>      would we be able to ‘place in the container’ - as proposed to mimic
> ‘Human Agent-
>
>      Conversational- Intelligent -  response’ ?
>
>      The elevation
>
>           From A.I built on the primary equation ‘Word processing =
> Character set processing’
>
>             To AGI – seeking ‘SENSE- SENSITIVITY- INTELLIGENT AND ETHICAL
>  DECISION GUIDANCE’
>
>               Needs ‘INTEGRATION BEYOND CONTAINERISED - POOLING’
>
>                 Of *LANGUAGE ELEMENTS* - handling < phonetic
> representation, geo-spatial history of
>
>              words and meanings, parts of speech, antonyms >,
>
>                   as *APPROPRIATE-TECHNOLOGY TO COLLECT- CONNECT – LINK
> LINGUISTIC UNIVERSALS*.
>
>
>
>       I may still be dreaming or making a wish list. The work is on-going
> for several decades.
>
>        But one thing I am certain from Language design Side: ‘Social
> English- Language Framework,
>
>       used in Large Language Modelling (roots going back to  Chomsky
> narrative of Universal
>
>       Language – Grammar).
>
>
>
> *What is Chomsky’s universal language grammar model* ? How it connects to
> ‘Consciousness- Research and  disciplines like – Neuroscience, Physical
> Biology, mind Brain systems, Language – Gene and the like.
>
>
>
> Universal grammar - Wikipedia
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_grammar
>
>
>
> Universal grammar (UG), in modern linguistics, is the theory of the innate
> biological component of the language faculty, usually credited to Noam
> Chomsky. The basic postulate of UG is that there are innate constraints on
> what the grammar of a possible human language could be. When linguistic
> stimuli are received in the course of language acquisition, children then
> adopt specific syntactic rules that conform to UG. The advocates of this
> theory emphasize and partially rely on the poverty of the stimulus (POS)
> argument and the existence of some universal properties of natural human
> languages. However, the latter has not been firmly established, as some
> linguists have argued languages are so diverse that such universality is
> rare, and the theory universal grammar remains controversial among
> linguists.
>
>
>
> What is Language to ‘Genes connection’ – by ‘Carbon - Consciousness’- ?
>
>
>
> Language and genetics | Max-Planck-Gesellschaft (mpg.de)
> <https://www.mpg.de/19395/language-genetics>
> https://www.mpg.de/19395/language-genetics
>
> Neuroscientists identify key role of language gene | MIT News |
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> <https://news.mit.edu/2014/language-gene-0915>
> https://news.mit.edu/2014/language-gene-0915
>
>
>

as noted, i believe the proposed field of endeavour to define a solution
that is built upon HDF5 or similar, to package all of the informatics
relating to a topic - such as, a language - into a file, that can be
distributed and processed, that takes into account and supports the means
to process the context of 'words' based upon the place and time those words
are written or refer to, will improve 'sense making'...  and in-turn,
likely, improve the capabilities of AI systems as to require fewer
resources than is otherwise necessary by other approaches.  I also believe
that this approach is not presently illustrated elsewhere, although that
may not be the case for very long.

The intended derivatives will then require a fit-for-purpose processor;
much like, the difference between a HTML / CSS / JS file; and a
web-browser, but the web-browser cannot be made to do anything useful,
without defining the document structure.  This is a similar situation,
whereby the means to define how language can be used, becomes
foundationally important when defining other systems that then assume that
the underlying resources will be made available to it / them, in a
particular way.

>
>
> 5. Right now the base reference for Techno-linguistics is still ‘Given
> Social- Historical - English language Characters’ placed in Unicode
> Standards – and ‘ Language Modelling’ is by  Spoken English in  ‘social
> media’ mode. This is a working business need in a social usage – economics
> of data with digital device, defined to  work  in a narrowly defined
> window. Would such a design be able to sustain scaling and diversity by
> Multilingualism and diversity of Language Applications as ‘Intelligent Use
> of Language’ ? I would ask: Would current ‘Watson’ answer the choices by
> ‘Value –ethics’?
>
>
>
> Can ‘Watson’ be programmed for Responsible Response -Human Centric AI -
> Ethics- Values’?
>
>
>
> What is IBM Watson supercomputer? | Definition from TechTarget
> <https://www.techtarget.com/searchenterpriseai/definition/IBM-Watson-supercomputer>
>
>
> https://www.techtarget.com/searchenterpriseai/definition/IBM-Watson-supercomputer
>
>
>

As noted - great effort has been put into working through the process of
seeking to define a means to support languages that are not even supported
by unicode.  I believe this approach, or any future related approaches, can
be used to address these most important problems.   Yet, the idea that the
consequence of these works is that human relationships are only able to be
made allowable by intermediaries operating major super-computers, is
something that i am quite concerned about; notwithstanding their ability to
fund works, should i be more careless about the human rights related works,
that seemingly, so few do...  and i can fully understand, why.



> Thinking….
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> BVK Sastry
>

best,

Tim.H (TCH).


>
>
>
> *From:* Timothy Holborn [mailto:timothy.holborn@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 24 June 2023 22:26
> *To:* BVK Sastry
> *Cc:* The Peace infrastructure Project; public-humancentricai@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Sense work - update
>
>
>
> Hi BVK,
>
>
>
> I've made this video playlist about HDF5:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S74Kc8QYDac&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_vox6DMC33Jzo0suvoakmduY&index=1
>
>
>
>
> i've had a bit more of a look at the NetCDF related works, and i'm not
> sure whether its the right path, but have a few things going on atm; so, i
> thought i'd cover it all via my reply.
>
>
>
> RE: the HDF5 file structure / format,
>
>
>
> i'll be using an example of the english language to create a POC that can
> be used for testing, examples & apps; where i'm just starting to think
> about how to define the mapping file,
>
>
>
> The container would include;
>
> - all alphabetic characters, including vector representation and likely
> also unicode character information, etc...
>
> - all words, including the phonetic representation, geo-spatial history of
> words and meanings, parts of speech, antonyms, etc.
>
>
>
> There's a few draft notes https://github.com/WebizenAI/sensedocs  but
> i've also got some updates that i haven't pushed (had a computer failure,
> i'll not go into detail); and, to some-degree, i'm not sure how useful
> those notes are anymore in anycase; as the works have advanced alot since i
> wrote them & set-up humancentricai.org as to ensure my efforts (webizen),
> didn't seek to own language or some such related field of moral concerns...
> then WSIS, UN, establishing this - its been a bit of a snowball... in
> anycase,
>
>
>
> There are various existing resources to produce this type of resource for
> English as well as many other languages already, however the process of
> defining the structure of this format would be the bigger implication for
> languages that are not already covered by unicode / web or 'ai' support...
> generally otherwise.  by seeking to address english, this will end-up going
> into latin, old-norse, celtic and various other stem languages, and indeed
> also, i'm looking forward to encoding heraldry - but my cultural journey,
> somewhat inspired by the consequence of works with Australian indigenous
> efforts since 2009/10 (related to: https://www.virtualsonglines.org/ )
> for people, with many languages - but none where books had anything to do
> with it, will in-turn be much like other use-cases i know you to be very
> focused on, alongside others in india and elsewhere; that, through the use
> of the english system (english is used by w3c) can be employed to advance
> works for other languages and applications...  seeking to advance
> standards, but also seeking to ensure we work to deliver solutions that
> support human dignity, ASAP, regardless...
>
>
>
> Therein - in-effect, this HDF5 methodology should provide the ability to
> provide structured context about the different ways the dataset (in this
> case, the english language) may be employed, in relation to other
> documents, applications, programs and sensors; employing various
> comprehensive representations of that dataset, is what the objective for
> the file-format is seeking to address, notwithstanding the desirable means
> to also look at how to produce decentralised protocols as a complementary
> companion and/or alternative...
>
>
>
> In-turn that file can be downloaded, and importantly, there is an ability
> to use the contents of these files, without having to load the entire file
> into memory; which would be a massive barrier.  However the exact method
> for defining how to construct these files, optimally, is now only barely
> started...  It'll take some iterations, unless we find some sage, wise,
> existing experts, willing to lend a hand and help to accelerate the
> research to evaluate whether this is indeed a worthy pursuit / solution, or
> if there's a better, alternative approach.  Also, the ecosystem components
> envisaged, make a significant difference as to whether or not there's any
> useful purpose for these works at all.  If natural persons are defined by a
> wallet and all words are streamed in real-time, then arguably there's
> nothing needed at 'the edge', as we're often called...
>
>
>
>
>
> Historically, with respect to alternatives,
>
>
>
> Alternatives have included;
>
> - RDF Documents (various notation formats)
>
> - SQL or RDBMS databases
>
> - Graph Databases
>
> - Vector Databases (emergent)
>
>
>
> However, I have not found a solution that appears to be as fit-for-purpose
> as these HDF5 related R&D outcomes, which still also needs to be advanced
> and tested.  The n-dimensionality of representing social contexts
> (multi-agent systems) becomes incredibly complex...  if it can't be
> represented, then it can't be processed by systems that depend upon the
> data (or evidence) being provided to it - in-order to do its job, whatever
> that may be...
>
>
>
> other use-cases, beyond languages (noting, that they could be
> interdependent), will be objective purposes like a person's entire 'life
> log' as may be considered usefully required for medical purposes, or in a
> court of law or various other complex high-stakes situations where failure
> to provide situational awareness comprehensively as to communicate context,
> may lead to severe injustices, harms and indeed also - untimely deaths,
> and/or outcomes that have unnecessarily negative impacts upon the souls,
> the minds of clinicians, judges & other persons of 'trust'...
>
>
>
> but overall, there's alot of use-cases...  many...
>
>
>
> With respect to logic representation, I haven't further developed any
> fixed view about it; other than considerations relating to,
>
>
>
> - for support of a 'backwards compatibility' requirement as a safety
> protocol (inc. social security, digital prisons, etc.) the output should be
> backwards compatible with solid.  This appears to be viable atm.
>
> - Prolog, Julia, Matlab, etc.  all provide sophisticated capabilities in
> fields relating to logic programming...
>
>
>
> the need to support both subjective and objective realities, is a
> critically important factor; and, in my opinion, attempts to institute
> 'thought controls' upon people, which has the implication of enslavement,
> effectively... even if the barriers are up for purely commercial reasons
> (ie: like a tollgate); as asserted, impairing the ability to define or
> communicate 'truth' (objective reality); whether it be in relation to a
> dispute, that may end-up in a court of law, or more broadly, to determine
> rights, responsibilities, character, context, meaning, values, etc...
> which is often also linked with business systems that seek to mute
> accountability, as to ensure gainful results without negative repercussions
> and at worst - thereafter also act as to seek to ensure that there are no
> other alternatives allowed.  This is also, to some-degree, a social and/or
> ideological position held by various groups, for various reasons...
>
>
>
> so, whilst i'm strongly opposed, and believe that there is a sufficiently
> significant market of others who are also very interested in solutions that
> can support 'reality check tech' features, as i believe becomes essential
> for providing a safe, useful and capability for 'dignity enhancing'
> foundations to ensure support private & personal AI systems, and by
> extension, bigger social / community (ie: commercial) systems; that
> supports for the social fabric brought about as that form interwoven
> dependencies, critical for productivity, common law, human rights, etc...
>
>
>
> There are alternative ideologies out there, and interoperability /
> portability (of human beings / souls) is an essential safety requirement
> for human centric ai systems, imo...
>
>
>
> Similar to - these use-cases, where I wish they had deployed 'mental
> health checks' for 'workers' in that field, far earlier, as to ensure
> people who might fail that test with their doctor, or not be able to go get
> the test - can be distinguished from those who do have them done...  the
> actual point - is about 'the journey out', the means to ensure that there
> is capacity to support human rights when the realities of whether or not
> agents do support them, or in-fact do not, is in-real terms - able to be
> tested...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV1NFYTwM3k
>
>
> https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/2009/anti-human-trafficking-manual.html
>
> https://twitter.com/theprojecttv/status/1670361008760651777
>
>
>
> like 'fair weather sailers', vs. those, you can depend upon in a storm..
> something, mayn, when writing their wills just before their second
> deployment on behalf of their countries, understand well...  alongside, the
> importance, of ensuring best efforts are made to produce the peace
> infrastructure we need, to transformationally improve the lives of others,
> everywhere. life on earth.
>
>
>
> SO,
>
>
>
> The objective of this constituency; is to form a sufficiently
> comprehensive means to communicate the full, n-dimensional requirements of
> datasets requiring these complexities, including languages which are
> particularly important as a foundational requirement to support the
> development of personal ontology support systems, and that starts with the
> tooling needed to improve support for the means through which we may then
> be able to be made able to, better understand one-another...  via human
> centric ai systems...
>
>
>
> which can thereby be employed for defining various ontological systems;
> and in-turn also, support far richer foundational dataset requirements for
> other AI models, that are likely to be 'plugged in' via python, etc...
> that may in-turn, act to support 'transformer' models (ie: like chat gpt)
> or other neural net, deep learning, machine learning, etc...  packages; and
> the means for others to produce those packages, by developing them in such
> a way that means they can employ these sorts of underlying data-packages
> that are more comprehensive than wordnet and other similar large language
> datasets; which as noted,
>
>
>
> is thought to be one application of many...
>
>
>
> I also note, that whilst POC work could more easily be done by simply
> using something like: https://www.wordsapi.com/
>
>
>
> As we have discussed, there is a massive issue with respect to the
> challenges related to ensuring support for all languages of prayer, all
> mother tongue languages..  particularly for private & personal AI agents,
> as thought important for support human rights, right to self-determination,
> the right to be heard.
>
>
>
> In consideration, given the very important nature of this problem, I have
> been working towards figuring out how to define a solution at this early
> stage, before I've got something that could otherwise be far simpler to
> demonstrate various other important considerations / qualities, etc...  due
> to my considerations about the level of importance that should be afforded
> to ensuring human centric ai works act to support the human dignity of all
> members of our human family, of which, language, is such a foundational
> construct to consciousness, selfhood and indeed also means to support
> personhood...
>
>
>
> noting;
> sparsity and 'location':
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VQILbDqaI4&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_voTpRK9-o5RksERak4kOL40&index=69&t=2407s
>
>
> quantum language processing:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9uSV1YcOy4&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_voTpRK9-o5RksERak4kOL40&index=67
>
> plausibility vs. understanding:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31VRbxAl3t0&list=PLCbmz0VSZ_voTpRK9-o5RksERak4kOL40&index=72&t=1919s
>
>
>
>
> That whilst many are very focused on ensuring all members of our human
> family are issued a 'key', that if lost can be replaced - as the means to
> define their identity via a 'wallet', and thereby provide support for
> systems intended to be deployed for purposes relating to health, commerce,
> education and interactions between natural persons and incorporated
> entities, particularly governmental entities...  such forms of alternative
> 'visions' of the future, are believed incapable of supporting some of the
> detailed requirements considered both before, and from the beginnings of
> the w3c works in ~2012-3 that led to my involvement in creating some of
> those tools; and whilst it is most certainly important to ensure
> interoperability and portability, akin to the right for persons in relation
> to faith / religion (as defined by UDHR);  there are also many, many
> factors that still require so much work, notwithstanding testimonials by
> others in former years declaring that they were doing it all already, and
> now, well...  it is what it is, whilst various international stakeholders
> move swiftly to define frameworks for digital transformation based upon
> what it is they know now.  based upon what it is, that is available.  not
> ideas, that might happen sometime in the future...   as such, the hope is,
> that in future - so long as solutions improve support for human rights,
> rule of law, etc..  that these future alternatives, be allowed...
>
>
>
> as such,
>
>
>
> there's alot that seemingly isn't best done in the W3C groups  and
> requires a follow-up on the old-work i did earlier for forming a means to
> support considerations via a global ISOC Topic SIG, that could in-turn act
> to work with the existing regional chapters around the world (~120 atm??);
> to be part of this process, you've got to join, here's the link,
>
> https://portal.internetsociety.org/622619/form/join
>
>
>
> Here's some links to some of the older work relating to these
> considerations,
> Feb 2016 - Knowledge Banking SIG
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DM3IW6xS2OIT5-OoHYZv3ra2BbGfma0l8EMVauT8KqU/edit?usp=sharing
>
> 30 Oct 2017 - Internet Society: Personhood and the Infosphere (A Human
> Centric Infosphere) Special Interest Group Terms of Reference v0.1
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RpfRN3hFvmt1GQWdrnQeC060Wr439YELbeDuNJiePX0/edit?usp=sharing
>
> May 2018 - Internet Australia Knowledge Banking SIG Slides
>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1W-JcGcOZM8JfICTrJyolP3Iw9wWvrfk9UUgwu0gBe30/edit?usp=sharing
>
> July 2018 - Knowledge Banking SIG TOR Draft
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xKHONGoepiq29r7NMB9T6yd6kPcfWY2JsaDzK6OqnHE/edit?usp=sharing
>
> April 2019 - Web Civics - Global SIG application
>
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o1FrGelPmWfA6olhKik--UzSBGH1Rz4o/view?usp=sharing
>
>
>
> I am also actively looking for support to advance works (resources);
> however, it is very difficult to find people with the skills required to
> work without compensation, as has been the case for a decade or so, and
> indeed, is one of the many reasons seemingly contributing towards the
> consequence of technologies developing, yet still lacking functional
> capacities to better empower people to protect and support their own human
> rights via lawful means; which is in-turn, linked with the problems
> associated to corruption, that the UN Suggests is around 5% of GDP:
> https://press.un.org/en/2018/sc13493.doc.htm and i'm not presently sure
> how to best calculate the Co2 impacts nor the productivity impacts, nor the
> impacts on our ability to better strive to achieve the SDGs.
>
>
>
> In summary;
>
>
>
> Work on this 'hdf5' research works, which as far as I'm aware has not been
> done before,  will take some weeks to advance; indeed, it may take some
> months, if not longer, to get to a point where a download link to working
> software can be sent to you...  so that your social experience, the way you
> experience and interact with the world online, your conscious experience of
> life, become far more greatly defined by you; and should you need to
> 'explain yourself' to whomever, contextually - that your means to do so,
> irrespective of the wealth that may or may not be found in your wallet, as
> to ensure peace - can be found and best supported, by law.
>
>
>
> As noted, sadly, there's still alot to do, but I'm working on it and I
> hope this helps.  the means to transform these works into something that
> properly defines software in a way that relates to the microsoft link you
> have forwarded, requires context; and the most important context to ensure
> is supported for you, is your context, not that of others who could create
> an alternative reality for you to live in, as a human resource for
> different sorts of socio-economic models; that may be very difficult to
> spot, unless, we can figure out the 'human' level personal ontology stuff,
> imo...
>
>
>
> Best.
>
>
>
> Timothy Holborn.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 24 Jun 2023 at 23:30, BVK Sastry <yogasamskrutham@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Namaste
>
>
>
> I came across a link of 1995 - from Microsoft Research - which could be
> worth a revisit in current discussion context.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/publication/the-death-of-computer-languages-the-birth-of-intentional-programming/
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> BVK Sastry
>
> On Wed, 21 Jun 2023, 5:33 am Timothy Holborn, <timothy.holborn@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>