Re: [Bug 10838] New: Make <u> conforming.

¦¬¨ì Ian 'Hixie' Hickson ªº¦^«H¤F¡G

> If we introduced <u> with the semantic "proper name mark", it would just be
> used incorrectly by everyone. So doing that would be bad. If this is a use case
> that we should address, then we're better off introducing a new element for it.
> 
> I can't find another reason to have <u> (I've thought about this quite a bit).
> It really does seem to be purely presentational; far more than even <small>,
> <b>, <i>, and <s>.


©Ò¥H¬O¤£¬O¥Nªí·s¼W¤@­Ó¼ÐÅÒ¤ñ <u> ¦³¾÷·|¡H


¦b Sep 30, 2010 7:46 AM ®É¡A KangHao Lu (Kenny) ¼g¨ì¡G

> »¡©ú¤@¤U¡B¡B³oºâ¬O¹ï¤§«e±M¦W¸¹ªº°Q½×[1]°µªº¦^À³¡AÁ`¤§´N¬O§Æ±æHTML5¼Ð·Ç®Ñ¦Ü¤Ö¤£·|§â<u>©ñ¦b¡u¤£¦X¼Ð·Çªº¼ÐÅÒ¡v[2] ¦Ó¦Ü¤Ö©ñ¦b¡u±N³Q©ß±ó¦ý¬O¦X¼Ð·Ç¡v[3]¡C«Ü©êºp¨S¥ý¦b³o­Ó¶l¥ó¸s²Õ±o¨ì¦@ÃÑ¡A¦ý¬O±q10/1¶}©l¦^³ø¼Ð·Ç¿ù»~ªº¹Lµ{·|¶i¤J¤U¤@­Ó¶¥¬q©Ò¥H§Ú¦Ü¤Ö§Æ±æ³o­ÓijÃD¦b³o­Ó®É­Ô³Q®³¥X¨Ó°Q½×¤@¤U¡C§Ú¥Ø«eªº¬Ýªk¬O
> 
> - ¥[¤@­Ó·s¼ÐÅÒ¡]¹³¬O<pn>¤§Ãþªº¡^¯uªº«Ü¤£¥i¯à
> - ¥Î<a>©Î<a href>¡]ÄݩʨS­È¡^¬O¤@ºØÀÝ¥Î
> - <span class="pn"> ÁÙ¬O¦³ÂI¤Óªø¤F
> - Mike¸ò§ÚÁ¿»¡<i>¯d¤U¨Óªº«Ü¤j­ì¦]¬O¦]¬°¦è¤è·|¥Î±×Åé¼Ð²î¦W¡AÁ`¤£¯àµo©ú¤@­Ó<ship>§a¡C©Ò¥H<u>¬O¤ñ¸û¹ê¦bªº¡A¦Ó¥B¤]¤£¤Ö¤H¤ä«ù§â<u>®³¦^¨Ó¡C
> 
> 
> 
> Á`¤§³o­ÓijÃD³B²zªºª¬ªp³£·|CC¨ì³o­Ó¦Cªí°Õ¡A¦pªG³o­Ó´£®×³Q¦^µ´¤F¤j®a¤]¦h¦hÁA¸Ñ³o­ÓHTML5½s¿èIan Hickson¬O«ç»ò°µ¨Æªº§a¡CijÃD¦^³ø¸Ì§Ú¤]´£¨ì¤F¤§«eªº°Q½×¡]¤T¦~«e¤F¡B¡B¡^¡A¦³¨Ç¬°¤°»ò<u>¤£¨£¤F¦ý¬O<b><i>¦^¨Ó¤Fªº­ì¦]¡]¥D­n´N¬O<u>¸ò¶W³sµ²ªº²V¶Ã°ÝÃD¡^¡C¤£¹L¨º®É­Ô³£¨S¤°»ò¤H´£¨ì±M¦W¸¹©Ò¥H³o¦¸´N¶¶«K´£¤F¤@´£°Õ¡I
> 
> Åwªï¤j®a¥ÎHTML5 Bug Trackerªº®É­ÔCC¨ì³oÃä¨Ó¡C
> 
> ¦³ªÅ¦A¦h¤¶²Ð¤@¨ÇHTML5ªº¦W¤H§a¡]¹³¬OBug¸Ì´£¨ìªºAppleªºMaciej[5]¡^
> 
> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-ig-zh/2010Aug/threadl#msg184
> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features
> [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-conforming-features
> [4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268
> [5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maciej_Stachowiak
> 
> ¦¹­P
> 
> Kenny
> 
> On 2010/09/30, at 8:06, bugzilla@jessica.w3.org wrote:
> 
>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10838
>> 
>>          Summary: Make <u> conforming.
>>          Product: HTML WG
>>          Version: unspecified
>>         Platform: PC
>>              URL: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/obsolete.html#obsolete-but-
>>                   conforming-features
>>       OS/Version: All
>>           Status: NEW
>>         Severity: major
>>         Priority: P3
>>        Component: HTML5 spec (editor: Ian Hickson)
>>       AssignedTo: ian@hixie.ch
>>       ReportedBy: kennyluck@w3.org
>>        QAContact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
>>               CC: mike@w3.org, public-html-wg-issue-tracking@w3.org,
>>                   public-html@w3.org, public-i18n-cjk@w3.org,
>>                   public-html-ig-zh@w3.org
>> 
>> 
>> This was discussed in a long thread[1] three years ago. There was no consensus
>> and no response from the editor, but since some people like Maciej think we can
>> make <u> at least conforming[2], I would like to raise this bug to catch the
>> editor's attention.
>> 
>> Proper name mark, in Chinese [3] is a use case that was slightly mentioned in
>> the thread (see also an example picture[4]). The purpose of this mark is to
>> highlight *every* proper noun in some text to help the reader break words,
>> cause Chinese people don't use spaces for word breaking. Although it is no
>> longer popular recently, proper name mark is still used in some textbooks in
>> Taiwan (esp. children's Chinese textbook) and Hong Kong. Because the purpose
>> and frequency of using "proper name mark" in a piece of text is similar to code
>> highlighting, I personally don't think it's appropriate to use <mark> for this
>> purpose since the spec says "This (<mark>) is separate from syntax
>> highlighting, for which span is more appropriate." But then <span class="pn">
>> is probably too long. This is not yet a very prevalent use case because proper
>> name marks are often used in combination with vertical text and vertical text
>> is not yet popular on the Web.
>> 
>> While I do strongly agree that an underlined text which is not a hyperlink
>> confuses the user in his/her browsing experience, there are HTML user agents
>> for which browsing the Web isn't the main purpose and hence the user might not
>> get confused. e-book readers are such examles.
>> 
>> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/thread#msg268
>> [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Dec/0307
>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_name_mark
>> [4] http://www.go8.com.tw/files/4168%200004.jpg
>> 
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>