W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-html-admin@w3.org > January 2013

[Bug 20696] New: ARIA: Clarify if features with strong native semantics also may have presentation role.

From: <bugzilla@jessica.w3.org>
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:20:20 +0000
To: public-html-admin@w3.org
Message-ID: <bug-20696-2495@http.www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/>

            Bug ID: 20696
           Summary: ARIA: Clarify if features with strong native semantics
                    also may have presentation role.
    Classification: Unclassified
           Product: HTML WG
           Version: unspecified
          Hardware: PC
               URL: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#
                OS: All
            Status: NEW
          Keywords: a11y, aria
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P3
         Component: HTML5 spec
          Assignee: dave.null@w3.org
          Reporter: xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no
        QA Contact: public-html-bugzilla@w3.org
                CC: faulkner.steve@gmail.com, hans.hillen@gmail.com,
                    mike@w3.org, public-html-admin@w3.org,
            Blocks: 20420

After the table inside section, "Implicit ARIA Semantics", comes an
explainative paragraph with 2 sentences:

]] The entry "no role", when used as a strong native semantic, means that no
role other than presentation can be used. When used as a default implicit ARIA
semantic, it means the user agent has no default mapping to ARIA roles.
(However, it probably will have its own mappings to the accessibility layer.)

This paragraph has a number of problems:

1) Location: It occurs in the section about implicit semantics, but it actually
applies to the section on strong as well. It would seem logical to at least
move the first sentence (in edited or unedited form) to the preceding section
on strong native semantics.

2) Overriding with role="presentation"? In bug 20420 against the <main> element
spec, an unclarity in the interpretation of HTML5 was highlighted. Namely: Can
features with strong native semantics be overridden with the presentation role?
Or can they not? Steve seems to be right (i.e.: it fits with my own
recollection) when he, in that bug, said that Ian at some point ruled that all
features could be overridden wiht the presentation role. However, this is not
(any longer) reflected in the spec, and my suspicision is that this at some
point was changed to only be true for the strong native semantic of "no role".

3) The above quoted paragraph says that elements with a strong native semantic
of "no role", can be overridden with the role "presentation". But nowhere in
the HTML5 spec is is said that strong semantics *other* than "no role" can
conformingly be overridden by role "presentation".

4) HTML5 says that "strong native semantics" is used in the same meaning that
ARIA puts in thant expression.
And ARIA say, quote: "Host languages MAY document features that cannot be
overridden with WAI-ARIA (these are called "strong native semantics")."
Note that ARIA does not give any exception for the presentation role. As such,
even the rule that "no role" can be set to "presentation", seems to controadict
with ARIA’s interpretation of "strong native semantics".

Personaly opinion: At least for some of the features in HTML5’s strong native
semantics table, it seems reasonably to be able to use role="presentation". For
instance, for the <hr> element.

Advice: I suggest 

(A) to check with e.g. Ian if the intention still is that all strong native
semantics features should be possible to conformingly override with
role="presentation".  Or whether that rule has been limited to elements of "no

(B) after the conclusion on (A), I suggest to check whether the definition of
"strong native semantics" is adequately described - in HTMl5 as well as in

(C) if, after (A) and (B), still relevant, check if the first sentence of the
quoted paragraph above, should be deleted or moved to the preceding section on
"strong native semantics".

You are receiving this mail because:
You are on the CC list for the bug.
Received on Thursday, 17 January 2013 12:20:22 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Friday, 17 January 2020 19:57:21 UTC