Minutes: HTML A11Y TF Teleconference, 09 January 2014


The minutes for the HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 09 January 2014 are available in HTML and plain text below:



      [1] http://www.w3.org/

              HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

09 Jan 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/09-html-a11y-irc


          Adrian_Roselli, John_Foliot, Janina Sajka Judy Brewer,
          Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly, Mark, Sadecki, Paul
          Cotton, Jatinder Mann, Ian Pouncey, Leonie Watson, Steve

          David MacDonald


          adrian, aardrian


     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Identify Scribe
         2. [5]Longdesc Update
         3. [6]Canvas 2D Followup
         4. [7]ARIA Related Bugs
         5. [8]Alt Guidance & Next Steps
     * [9]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 09 January 2014

   <MarkS> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference

   <MarkS> Chair: Janina_Sajka

   <MarkS> [10]agenda

     [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Jan/0007.html

Identify Scribe

     [11] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

   <aardrian> scribe: aardrian

Longdesc Update

   JS: Expecting Chaals to post results of last survey soon,
   expired on Dec-31-2013.
   ... Group mostly in favor of publishing stand-alone

   <JF> +Q

   JS: Need to put together report to show testing results, etc.
   ... Still targeting to have it done for CSUN.

   MS: Updates from Last Call comment period are added to draft.
   Working on putting together exit criteria.
   ... Hoping to put together calendar for dates for moving
   longdesc forward.

   JF: Offering help with any of test reporting, etc.

   <paulc> 1. When will the LC bugs actually be closed:
   [12]http://tinyurl.com/kaqkj4h ?

     [12] http://tinyurl.com/kaqkj4h

   PC: There appears to be ~5 LC bugs still open, when can they be

   <paulc> 2. What role will the HTML WG have in moving forward?

   MS: Probably can be closed now, will verify.

   PC: What role does HTMLWG have in working spec forward?

   JS: The answer may be that HTMLWG is group that publishes it,
   since TF cannot publish.

   PC: Any schedule should take that into consideration.

Canvas 2D Followup

   <MarkS> [13]Minutes from last canvas sub group meeting

     [13] http://www.w3.org/2014/01/06-html-a11y-minutes.html

   MS: Had second meeting on Monday, verified completion of
   actions, came to better understanding of features.
   ... [Reference to notes coming from Mark, minutes already

   <MarkS> [14]Summary of Canvas sub-group Meeting

     [14] http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Summary_of_2014-01-06_Meeting

   <paulc> Do we have tests that can be added to the Canvas CR
   test suite? Note that at the F2F we discussed Canvas testing
   and concluded we largely had enough results to exit CR EXCEPT
   for the focusring work.

   PC: Are there tests for the Canvas CR test suite?

   RS: We have not looked at them, we should.

   JS: On procedural question, should we ask for help from Testing
   TF on writing tests?

   MS: I can take a shot, but not efficient. Will check with
   Canvas sub-group to see if anyone can help.

   RS: If we do this, no need to go back through CR?

   PC: Reason we'd go back to LC is to remove/add features from/to
   ... Working group in Shenzhen felt we had enough proof of
   interoperability to exit now.
   ... Two choices: Go back to LC as soon as sub-group has
   flattened bugs; delay going back to LC if we have evidence to
   avoid CR.

   RS: Don't know how we avoid CR -- building implementations in

   PC: Without tests/implementations, then right path might be to
   go back to LC with notes...
   ... on establishing proof of interoperability and then can come
   out of LC.
   ... Would ask sub-group for its thoughts on timeframe.
   ... Maybe comes out of LC early Feb, could come out of CR end
   of March. Speculating.
   ... It might help if I attend next week's meeting to answer
   questions in person.

   RS: With ARIA CR, were done with implementations, had to wait
   on IP period. May not be an issue here. That's why I asked.

   PC: Might be referring to disclosure requirement, will need to
   ... Since spec has been in LC once, does this apply? Will

   JM: Could ask implementers if they want to help, work out test

   <JatinderMann> [15]http://greweb.me/glsl-transition/example/

     [15] http://greweb.me/glsl-transition/example/

   JM: Have found 2 sites of real-world examples of controls in

   <JatinderMann> [16]https://personal.teamlab.com/

     [16] https://personal.teamlab.com/

   JM: One example uses Canvas as a control for the bezier easing
   function, the other is an example of real world text editor in

ARIA Related Bugs

   JS: Bug squashing happened last week. Three bugs remaining.

   JS: Hoping to do something on remaining 3 in call on Monday.

   <paulc> There are only 11 HTML5 CR bugs remaining:

     [17] http://tinyurl.com/mzf5l5u

   SF: One member does not agree with one of the bugs. Would be
   good to have his buy-in.

   RS: Don't need unaninimity.

   [18]https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19277 is
   marked RESOLVES WONTFIX. If someone disagrees they should
   re-open the bug.

     [18] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=19277

   PC: All other browser makes support decision, don't agree with

   SF: Wants him to understand risks, particularly around
   hidden/unhidden elements in tree.

   RS: Do we need to hold up standardization process for one
   person who doesn't get it?
   ... Wants Firefox (Alexander) to get it, but it's difficult
   enough to get everyone in the room to discuss.

   <SteveF> @hidden

     [19] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23371

   SF: Argument from Alex: "We don't override disable, why should
   we override hidden?"

   PC: Wrong link to bug in minutes, different from link provided
   by SF.
   ... Argument about the bug is erroneous because it's the wrong

   <paulc> There are only 11 HTML5 CR bugs remaining:

     [20] http://tinyurl.com/mzf5l5u

   PC: Earlier in call, dropped in link to remaining bugs.
   Providing again.
   ... Vast majority of them will be accessibility related.
   ... When chairs met on Monday was look at HTML5 CR bugs, need
   to give selves deadline just as done for Canvas bugs.
   ... Expecting at least 3-4 of non-a11y bugs to be related later
   this week, earlier next week, leaving a11y outstanding.

   JS: May need to take a call for consensus on 23371.

   PC: 19277, there has been a lot of discussion since marked as
   ... If anyone disagrees, then they should re-open 19277.

   RS: Looking at list, which should be taken up in ARIA call on

   PC: Why not at least 3 in the agenda for this meeting?

   RS: Because there are lots of bugs in here.

   PC: Went through CR bugs one at a time in Shenzhen. Other bugs
   nominally have someone on point.
   ... Suggestion is to concentrate on the three noted, then we
   can look at what's left.

   RS: Sees Janinna is not on point for any of them.

   PC: The three in the agenda are correct. Some details were
   hammered out in Shenzhen.

   RS: Will put those three on Monday's call, will join Monday's

   JS: Let's see if we can get Alexander on call as well.


     [21] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=23371#c5

   SF: Would be useful for Rich to look at Alex's last comment on
   23371 and respond.
   ... Just closed a bug that wasn't necessary to block CR. Not
   one of the three on Janina's list.

   <SteveF> closed this bug

     [22] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20730

   SF: Bug #20730

Alt Guidance & Next Steps

   JS: Are we done with image map discussion?

   <MarkS> [23]Discussion thread start

     [23] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Dec/0023.html

   SF: Boils down to some saying no alt text needed for image in
   the map.

   <MarkS> [24]spec reference

     [24] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#image-maps-0

   SF: Updated example in spec in response to review, mainly Jukka
   and Leif.


     [25] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#image-maps-0

   <paulc> Per previous discussion, Steve's "closed a bug" is
   documented in
   14Jan/0091.html and is bug

     [26] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-bugzilla/2014Jan/0091.html
     [27] https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20730

   SF: From list: Shouldn't be identifying image as image with an
   alt since image map role is to provide navigation.
   ... Would like to get other opinions.

   CS: Some image maps are navigational, some presentation.

   SF: In the example, two links on a geographical map.

   LW: Agree with Cynthia. Sometimes image is important, sometimes
   not. Hard to qualify that subtlety.
   ... Would rather know that image is there so, as user, she can

   JF: Thinks image always requires some kind of alt.
   ... Feels example is correct because map is more than two areas
   in links.

   SF: Can you please respond on list?

   <SteveF> [28]Discussion thread start

     [28] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Dec/0023.html

   JS: Also the question of have we sufficiently tweaked the alt
   guidance so we can sign off?

   SF: Couple bugs around relatively minor issues outstanding.
   ... Feedback should be coming from WAI.

   JS: Duly reminded I need to respond, and will do that.
   ... Do we need to have a consensus call?

   SF: Nothing controversial in additions, just examples and text.

   <SteveF> last 2 examples :

     [29] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#images-of-text

   SF: Need to get people to look it over, get consensus.

   <LJWatson> [30]http://tinyurl.com/ckoq2cd

     [30] http://tinyurl.com/ckoq2cd

   LW: Still a handful of bugs assigned to text alternative team,
   marked resolved, need to be reviewed by sub-teams.

   JS: Goal for closing by CSUN. Will probably run a call for
   consensus using snapshot.
   ... Mark, let's make discussion point for our call. Review and
   make sure it's closed.

   SF: Started to add to the head section of elements,
   info/pointers to appropriate ARIA references.

   JS: Noted on recent PF call, people were excited about it and
   HTML 5.1.

   SF: Trying to get feedback from the list.

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]

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Received on Thursday, 9 January 2014 20:49:03 UTC