Minutes: HTML A11Y TF Teleconference, 18 December 2014

The minutes for the HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 18
December 2014
are available in HTML and plain text below:




      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

              HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

18 Dec 2014

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-irc


          Judy, Adrian_Roselli, ShaneM, LJWatson, +1.617.319.aaaa,
          MarkS, janina, chaals, Joanmarie_Diggs, Liam, paulc,
          IanPouncey, Plh, [IPcaller], leonie




     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]alt note
         2. [5]WishList:
         3. [6]Keyboard access -
         4. [7]First meeting of 2015: date?
         5. [8]Any other business?
         6. [9]longdesc question
     * [10]Summary of Action Items

   <trackbot> Date: 18 December 2014

   <trackbot> Sorry, chaals, I don't understand 'trackbot, wake up
   please'. Please refer to
   <[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.

     [11] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc

   <scribe> scribe: MarkS

alt note

   CN: Any other business?

   JS: Add a longdesc topic

   CN: RE: ALT Note, there are some bugs filed.

   SM: That's were we are right now

   CN: Any other bugs out there?

   JS: yes, I have a few

   SM: me too

   LQ: Timeline?

   SM: Updated doc by end of january is realistic
   ... get bugs filed by jan 9 please



   CN: 5.1 wish list. This is a tracking device. Prioritized by
   where the activity is. If you feel strongly about something, do
   work to push it along
   ... anything else anyone wants to see on this list?
   ... I've heard discussions about how to handle panels,
   accordions, carousels, etc.
   ... there has been discussions to spec these up in HTML
   ... Leonie has done some work
   ... right now it heavily relies on ARIA and interop is


   MS: This is a very difficult thing to implement interoperable.
   Would like to discuss possible solutions further

   CN: I will put in wiki

Keyboard access - [13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accesskey

     [13] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accesskey

   CN: s/interoperable/interoperably

   s/CN: s/interoperably/interoperably/

   CN: link to use cases and requirements in the wiki. what we are
   trying to achieve
   ... accesskey is the motivating problem, has potential to clear
   up other lingering issues, tabindex, semantic elements with
   builtin interactions.
   ... should we be working on this in isolation, or as a greater
   interaction issue
   ... I would like to keep it simple, but we need to consider how
   any changes made in this space affect other interaction pieces
   of HTML
   ... has anyone looked at these use cases lastly?

   LW: I have

   LQ: me too
   ... think its worth looking into what HTML and browser people
   think about keybindings
   ... just to see if it would be productive to work on
   interaction as a whole

   CN: at yandex, we are thinking about this a lot. we would like
   it to be better in our browser and in our services. considering
   whether working with access key as it is is better than

   LW: I think its very broken as it stands.

   CN: Paul, is the IE team interested in working on this problem
   at all?

   PC is not santa claus

   PC: I think you should ask cynthia about that

   CN: I've been keeping the wiki page up to date. There are a
   list of bugs.
   ... what happens if you have an accesskey on a random element?
   how does it affect role? not at all.
   ...23612: script in there has an example of who should inform
   ... think we should be changing that.
   ...27654: the user should be in charge of what keys are
   available to use as access keys
   ... provides an algorithm for UA to select available keys
   ... I agree that the user should have some control over this
   ... next bug, privacy. Can increase the accuracy of
   fingerprinting users. Reveals too much info about who you are
   and track you
   ... still not clear why we have accesskey label anyway.
   especially if the page shouldn't be telling the user how their
   browser should work
   ... wonders if the screenreader would rely on the DOM or the
   AAPI in this case

   JD: Orca does everything through the AAPI, which gets most of
   its info from the DOM...
   ... could expose this info without it being in the DOM, like
   with CSS generated content

   CN: and that is the common approach, correct?

   JD: that is my understanding, but I don't know about JAWS and
   other windows Screenreaders

   CN: Still work to do on this topic.

   JS: Here's a crazy idea. I get nervous about anything keyboard
   centric since we are seeing more touch and voice interaction
   ... if we are saying that the user supplies the keys, were not
   just talking about a standard web page, its pages the user uses
   frequently, like an app, where users would take advantage of
   such a shortcut.
   ... perhaps we leave it entirely up to the user, that they can
   add their own shortcuts to any focusable content

   CN: the activation behavior, may be a gesture rather than a
   key, could also be a voice command. We need to be very careful.
   At the bottom of the page, there is a statement that hints at
   ... can't just be a single key
   ... need to support various interactions
   ... agree that pages you are not likely to visit often, user
   won't hunt around for accesskeys. The approach of allowing the
   user to create their own bookmarks/shortcuts would be a UA
   feature, nothing to do with HTML

   JS: I wonder if we made the automatic enumeration of elements,
   like Lynx did, you could port your shortcuts across

   CN: like XPointer, but not something you would put in HTML

   <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to shoot you down (not really…)

   <Zakim> liam, you wanted to support/ask-about more user control
   of access keys, e.g. rebinding

   LQ: the web annotations working group is facing the problem of
   how to annotate a piece of the document. Associating text with
   a particular part of the page could be extending to supporting
   ... To what extent is user control of accesskeys available? Can
   you override them?

   CN: only through extensions at this point, i believe.
   ... support for access keys in general is poor to terrible.
   ... Opera mini probably has the best implementation of allowing
   users to overwrite

   PLH: I wanted to agree with chaals, this is about getting the
   config from one UA to another. As soon as you start talking
   about making the config portable, its not within the realm of
   ... nice to have, I agree, but outside of HTML scope.

   <liam> [Liam wonders where plh feels such a conversation
   _could_ occur (agree not HTML spec) ]

   <plh> [sure, but don't we have a long list of things to tackle
   for HTML?]

   CN: think we should look into a way of revealing what
   executable things are in the page and can they have an
   identifier. No JS API currently.
   ... would be helpful to expose what executable things are in
   the page and can they have an identifier

   JS: I like that idea a lot. I can see a l lot of applications
   that could benefit from that.

   CN: is the obvious way to do this writing an extension spec, or
   file bugs on HTML? Paul?

   JB: I would think that the end goal would be to integrate
   solution into the HTML spec. Potentially extension spec for
   development, but path back into HTML
   ... consider tapping into tabindex at the same time

   <paulc> I suggest you talk to Robin about making the accesskey
   part of HTML5 (and other items like tabindex) into a "After
   HTML5" module so that it can be worked on following his new
   development methodology.

   JB: don't think a lot of incremental bugs is the most useful
   path. anyone else?

   PC: I suggest talking to Robin about turning this topic into a
   module that people can start working on.
   ... get it into github so people can start contributing and

   PLH: Should work it as a module, with possible integration
   later on. Agree that module is good idea and talking to robin

   <paulc> The module should probably include some part of


   <chaals> ACTION: chaals to talk torobin about an accesskey
   (maybe etc) module for HTML [recorded in

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-294 - Talk torobin about an accesskey
   (maybe etc) module for html [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due

First meeting of 2015: date?

   CN: this is last meeting for 2014. What date should we resume
   in 2015?

   <plh> january 8?

   <paulc> Thu Jan 8 would be the likely candidate for next

   <ShaneM> +1

   <paulc> Jan 1 is obvious the first Thu and is NOT a candidate.

   <aardrian> +1


   <Judy> +1

   <paulc> Jan 8 +1

   CN: January the 8th will be next meeting then

   <chaals> RESOLUTION: next meeting january 8th

Any other business?

longdesc question

   CN: longdesc, Janina?

   <chaals> janina?

   PLH: I think MIT is experiencing network issues
   ... anyone dialing in over IP will likely have issues

   <paulc> Happy Holidays to everyone.

   JB: Reminder for those from Member orgs to comment on PR with
   regards to longdesc. Janina had a question, but since she is
   not here...
   ... I propose we end the call

   LW: Chaals just messaged us that he would like to thank
   everyone for the last 12 months of work and to have a happy

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: chaals to talk torobin about an accesskey (maybe
   etc) module for HTML [recorded in

   [End of minutes]

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Found Scribe: MarkS
Inferring ScribeNick: MarkS
Default Present: Judy, Adrian_Roselli, ShaneM, LJWatson, +1.617.319.aaaa
, MarkS, janina, chaals, Joanmarie_Diggs, Liam, paulc, IanPouncey, Plh,
[IPcaller], leonie
Present: Judy Adrian_Roselli ShaneM LJWatson +1.617.319.aaaa MarkS janin
a chaals Joanmarie_Diggs Liam paulc IanPouncey Plh [IPcaller] leonie

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 18 Dec 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes
People with action items: chaals

     [20] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes.html

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Received on Thursday, 18 December 2014 17:08:00 UTC