- From: Mark Sadecki <mark.sadecki@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2014 12:07:13 -0500
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <CAOego5MNdtQZ8Thc+ULn7+-VsAoijZXa0U3UORAh36AXoG=V2g@mail.gmail.com>
The minutes for the HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 18
December 2014
are available in HTML and plain text below:
HTML:
http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes.html
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TEXT:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
18 Dec 2014
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Judy, Adrian_Roselli, ShaneM, LJWatson, +1.617.319.aaaa,
MarkS, janina, chaals, Joanmarie_Diggs, Liam, paulc,
IanPouncey, Plh, [IPcaller], leonie
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
MarkS
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]alt note
2. [5]WishList:
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Wi
shlist_for_HTML5.1
3. [6]Keyboard access -
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accesskey
4. [7]First meeting of 2015: date?
5. [8]Any other business?
6. [9]longdesc question
* [10]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 18 December 2014
<trackbot> Sorry, chaals, I don't understand 'trackbot, wake up
please'. Please refer to
<[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
[11] http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
<scribe> scribe: MarkS
alt note
CN: Any other business?
JS: Add a longdesc topic
CN: RE: ALT Note, there are some bugs filed.
SM: That's were we are right now
CN: Any other bugs out there?
JS: yes, I have a few
SM: me too
LQ: Timeline?
SM: Updated doc by end of january is realistic
... get bugs filed by jan 9 please
WishList:
[12]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Wishlist_for_
HTML5.1
[12]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Wishlist_for_HTML5.1
CN: 5.1 wish list. This is a tracking device. Prioritized by
where the activity is. If you feel strongly about something, do
work to push it along
... anything else anyone wants to see on this list?
... I've heard discussions about how to handle panels,
accordions, carousels, etc.
... there has been discussions to spec these up in HTML
... Leonie has done some work
... right now it heavily relies on ARIA and interop is
problematic
+1
MS: This is a very difficult thing to implement interoperable.
Would like to discuss possible solutions further
CN: I will put in wiki
Keyboard access - [13]https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accesskey
[13] https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Accesskey
CN: s/interoperable/interoperably
s/CN: s/interoperably/interoperably/
CN: link to use cases and requirements in the wiki. what we are
trying to achieve
... accesskey is the motivating problem, has potential to clear
up other lingering issues, tabindex, semantic elements with
builtin interactions.
... should we be working on this in isolation, or as a greater
interaction issue
... I would like to keep it simple, but we need to consider how
any changes made in this space affect other interaction pieces
of HTML
... has anyone looked at these use cases lastly?
LW: I have
LQ: me too
... think its worth looking into what HTML and browser people
think about keybindings
... just to see if it would be productive to work on
interaction as a whole
CN: at yandex, we are thinking about this a lot. we would like
it to be better in our browser and in our services. considering
whether working with access key as it is is better than
nothing...
LW: I think its very broken as it stands.
CN: Paul, is the IE team interested in working on this problem
at all?
PC is not santa claus
PC: I think you should ask cynthia about that
CN: I've been keeping the wiki page up to date. There are a
list of bugs.
... what happens if you have an accesskey on a random element?
how does it affect role? not at all.
...23612: script in there has an example of who should inform
who
... think we should be changing that.
...27654: the user should be in charge of what keys are
available to use as access keys
... provides an algorithm for UA to select available keys
... I agree that the user should have some control over this
... next bug, privacy. Can increase the accuracy of
fingerprinting users. Reveals too much info about who you are
and track you
... still not clear why we have accesskey label anyway.
especially if the page shouldn't be telling the user how their
browser should work
... wonders if the screenreader would rely on the DOM or the
AAPI in this case
JD: Orca does everything through the AAPI, which gets most of
its info from the DOM...
... could expose this info without it being in the DOM, like
with CSS generated content
CN: and that is the common approach, correct?
JD: that is my understanding, but I don't know about JAWS and
other windows Screenreaders
CN: Still work to do on this topic.
JS: Here's a crazy idea. I get nervous about anything keyboard
centric since we are seeing more touch and voice interaction
... if we are saying that the user supplies the keys, were not
just talking about a standard web page, its pages the user uses
frequently, like an app, where users would take advantage of
such a shortcut.
... perhaps we leave it entirely up to the user, that they can
add their own shortcuts to any focusable content
CN: the activation behavior, may be a gesture rather than a
key, could also be a voice command. We need to be very careful.
At the bottom of the page, there is a statement that hints at
this.
... can't just be a single key
... need to support various interactions
... agree that pages you are not likely to visit often, user
won't hunt around for accesskeys. The approach of allowing the
user to create their own bookmarks/shortcuts would be a UA
feature, nothing to do with HTML
JS: I wonder if we made the automatic enumeration of elements,
like Lynx did, you could port your shortcuts across
environments
CN: like XPointer, but not something you would put in HTML
spec.
<Zakim> chaals, you wanted to shoot you down (not really…)
<Zakim> liam, you wanted to support/ask-about more user control
of access keys, e.g. rebinding
LQ: the web annotations working group is facing the problem of
how to annotate a piece of the document. Associating text with
a particular part of the page could be extending to supporting
shortcuts
... To what extent is user control of accesskeys available? Can
you override them?
CN: only through extensions at this point, i believe.
... support for access keys in general is poor to terrible.
... Opera mini probably has the best implementation of allowing
users to overwrite
PLH: I wanted to agree with chaals, this is about getting the
config from one UA to another. As soon as you start talking
about making the config portable, its not within the realm of
HTML
... nice to have, I agree, but outside of HTML scope.
<liam> [Liam wonders where plh feels such a conversation
_could_ occur (agree not HTML spec) ]
<plh> [sure, but don't we have a long list of things to tackle
for HTML?]
CN: think we should look into a way of revealing what
executable things are in the page and can they have an
identifier. No JS API currently.
... would be helpful to expose what executable things are in
the page and can they have an identifier
JS: I like that idea a lot. I can see a l lot of applications
that could benefit from that.
CN: is the obvious way to do this writing an extension spec, or
file bugs on HTML? Paul?
JB: I would think that the end goal would be to integrate
solution into the HTML spec. Potentially extension spec for
development, but path back into HTML
... consider tapping into tabindex at the same time
<paulc> I suggest you talk to Robin about making the accesskey
part of HTML5 (and other items like tabindex) into a "After
HTML5" module so that it can be worked on following his new
development methodology.
JB: don't think a lot of incremental bugs is the most useful
path. anyone else?
PC: I suggest talking to Robin about turning this topic into a
module that people can start working on.
... get it into github so people can start contributing and
commenting
PLH: Should work it as a module, with possible integration
later on. Agree that module is good idea and talking to robin
<paulc> The module should probably include some part of
[14]http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#assig
ning-keyboard-shortcuts
[14]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#assigning-keyboard-shortcuts
<chaals> ACTION: chaals to talk torobin about an accesskey
(maybe etc) module for HTML [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
1]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-294 - Talk torobin about an accesskey
(maybe etc) module for html [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due
2014-12-25].
First meeting of 2015: date?
CN: this is last meeting for 2014. What date should we resume
in 2015?
<plh> january 8?
<paulc> Thu Jan 8 would be the likely candidate for next
meeting.
<ShaneM> +1
<paulc> Jan 1 is obvious the first Thu and is NOT a candidate.
<aardrian> +1
+1
<Judy> +1
<paulc> Jan 8 +1
CN: January the 8th will be next meeting then
<chaals> RESOLUTION: next meeting january 8th
Any other business?
longdesc question
CN: longdesc, Janina?
<chaals> janina?
PLH: I think MIT is experiencing network issues
... anyone dialing in over IP will likely have issues
<paulc> Happy Holidays to everyone.
JB: Reminder for those from Member orgs to comment on PR with
regards to longdesc. Janina had a question, but since she is
not here...
... I propose we end the call
LW: Chaals just messaged us that he would like to thank
everyone for the last 12 months of work and to have a happy
holiday
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: chaals to talk torobin about an accesskey (maybe
etc) module for HTML [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#action0
1]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
Minutes formatted by David Booth's [17]scribe.perl version
1.140 ([18]CVS log)
$Date: 2014-12-18 16:51:43 $
__________________________________________________________
[17] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
[18] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Scribe.perl diagnostic output
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WARNING: Bad s/// command: s/CN: s/interoperable/interoperably/
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Found Scribe: MarkS
Inferring ScribeNick: MarkS
Default Present: Judy, Adrian_Roselli, ShaneM, LJWatson, +1.617.319.aaaa
, MarkS, janina, chaals, Joanmarie_Diggs, Liam, paulc, IanPouncey, Plh,
[IPcaller], leonie
Present: Judy Adrian_Roselli ShaneM LJWatson +1.617.319.aaaa MarkS janin
a chaals Joanmarie_Diggs Liam paulc IanPouncey Plh [IPcaller] leonie
WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
<dbooth> Chair: dbooth
Found Date: 18 Dec 2014
Guessing minutes URL: [20]http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes
.html
People with action items: chaals
[20] http://www.w3.org/2014/12/18-html-a11y-minutes.html
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[21] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
Received on Thursday, 18 December 2014 17:08:00 UTC