Re: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current browsers, and Screen Readers

Hello, Sailesh:


A few comments in line below ...

Sailesh Panchang writes:
> >>Let's stick with a consistent set of APIs (ARIA) that developers can go to as much as possible for one stop shopping. 
> >>"back to the hodge podge of attributes that were thrown in at the end of HTML 4's release." 
> 
> The 'summary' attribute is like any attributes defined for  various HTML elements meant to aid accessibility. 
> Not sure why this is being singled out.

I suggest your tense is incorrect. This is not a case of "is," but of
long ago "was."

This debate goes back many years. PF objected to removing table summary
as early as Aug 2008, and the debate was quite old even then:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2008Aug/0213.html

As I pointed out in my last message, the decision to drop summary on
tables was made by the HTML-WG according to their decision policy--and
it was made a long time ago as well, namely in April 2011:

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Apr/0091.html

Please note their decision announcement includes their reasons. One may
disagree with their reasons, as many of us in PF and in the HTML-A11Y
Task Force did disagree. Nevertheless, this was the WG decision.

If you believe it should be put back, I would suggest you file a bug
against HTML 5.1. That will insure this attribute is reconsidered.

> ARIA is designed for making custom elements accessible that HTML elementss and attributes are unable to handle and not replace features that are AT-supported and serve users. 


ARIA is host language independent. This means it provides AT the
opportunity for consistent feature support regardless of what host
language is used. We need ARIA for HTML, but we also need it for SVG,
for instance.

> Not sure why something that works to make content accessible as demonstrated by David's analysis is being thrown out of the  window.


It's not. Table summary was remove from HTML 5 long long ago. We failed
to get it back in.

Meanwhile, the WG decision referenced above argued that table summary
was unneeded, because we were supposed to be able to use caption
instead, as defined in the HTML 5 spec to this day.

Well, it didn't work then, and it
doesn't work now. That's what's going out the window--because we have a better replacement in the wings, and it will be
specified in a PF published FPWD quite soon.

> Making AT and browsers support new techniques that have been authored now is not 'fixing a defect' but an enhancement. 
> Deprecating attributes that are well supported by AT is a retrograde step. 


Indeed. I hope my explanation helps.

Janina


> Thanks,
> Sailesh Panchang
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 6/21/13, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> 
>  Subject: Re: HTML5 alternatives to table summary don't work in current browsers, and  Screen Readers
>  To: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org, public-html-a11y@w3.org
>  Cc: "Steve Faulkner" <sfaulkner@paciellogroup.com>, mick@nvaccess.org
>  Date: Friday, June 21, 2013, 10:48 AM
>  
>  
>  David,
>  
>  
>  
>  I saw your post that you
>  think summary should be reinstated because of a JAWS and/or
>  NVDA have a defect (it works in VoiceOver) does not warrant
>  going back to the hodge podge of attributes that were thrown
>  in at the end of HTML 4's release. 
>  
>  
>  
>  Let's stick with a
>  consistent set of APIs (ARIA) that developers can go to as
>  much as possible for one stop shopping. 
>  
>  
>  
>  I have alerted Freedom
>  Scientific of the defect and they will fix it. I have copied
>  Mick Curran at NVDA and hopefully they will also correct the
>  problem with IE and Firefox. 
>  
>  
>  
>  Mick, please see the
>  following link:
>  
>  
>  
>  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0089.html#start89
>  
>  
>  
>  We can't be writing
>  specs. based on proprietary assistive technology
>  defects.
>  
>  
>  
>  Rich
>  
>  
>  
>   
>  
>  
>  
>  Rich Schwerdtfeger

-- 

Janina Sajka,	Phone:	+1.443.300.2200
			sip:janina@asterisk.rednote.net
		Email:	janina@rednote.net

Linux Foundation Fellow
Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup:	http://a11y.org

The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI)
Chair,	Protocols & Formats	http://www.w3.org/wai/pf
	Indie UI			http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/

Received on Friday, 21 June 2013 20:41:31 UTC