- From: Michael Cooper <cooper@w3.org>
- Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 14:49:17 -0400
- To: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <50804F2D.7000509@w3.org>
Minutes of the 18 October 2012 HTML Accessibility Task Force meeting are posted to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html and copied below. HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 18 Oct 2012 Agenda <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Oct/0108.html> See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-irc> Attendees Present John_Foliot, hober, Janina, Judy, Michael_Cooper, Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly Regrets leonie Chair Janina_Sajka Scribe Judy, MichaelC Contents * Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#agenda> 1. Sec. 7.1 Hidden http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20121011/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#item01> 2. Poster Alt Redux http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Oct/0062.html <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#item02> 3. Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Text <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#item03> 4. The Task Force at the TPAC <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#item04> 5. Other Business <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#item05> * Summary of Action Items <http://www.w3.org/2012/10/18-html-a11y-minutes.html#ActionSummary> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ <trackbot> Date: 18 October 2012 <janina> trackbot, start meeting <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference <trackbot> Date: 18 October 2012 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference <Judy> scribe: Judy Sec. 7.1 Hidden http://htmlwg.org/heartbeat/WD-html5-20121011/editing.html#the-hidden-attribute JS: Where should we track the latest version of the lang? TOC: Latest editor's draft. CS: I started a thread last week, set of events and methods that shouldn't work, couple of comments, happy to discuss live. JS: JF and TOC here, RS is not. Possibly discuss. JF: Thx Cynthia. Looks good. Where is that effort going? Note it in the text, that those events should be disabled? Need to draw attention to that in the spec. ... Last saw it Tues this week; Ted will you be rolling it into the Ed's draft? Ted: Think I saw qu's from Maciej that would be worth addressing first. JF: Posed a qu to Maciej, don't know if was responded to. CS: You could get element by ID and click on it and that should fail. ... but so should that be called a method. Focus, blur, shouldn't those just fail? Make sense? <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC jf: can´t have anything requiring focus in hidden content think language was that scripted form controls would still be active it should be explicit that such things would be disabled so you don´t get focus in there somehow cs: yes, also for @@ sounds like a similar problem we had with shadow DOM in canvas jf: that´s like an image map with something you don´t see behind the image in canvas, things in sub-DOM get displayed in the visible portion cs: maybe we could think of longer descriptions as being more like the imagemap situation jf: the proposal to add aria-describedat would add this magic property aria-describedby should not have that ability I don´t oppose the former, I oppose retrofitting aria-describedby <JF> +1 to that cs: I always thought of describedby as like opening a new window expected attempts to focus would fail I´m ok with @@ but some have other views jf: I just don´t want anything not visible to be focusable haven´t heard of a situation where we´d want that cs: could imagine a canvas-like situation with a subtree you should be able to work around but not sure if that use case would come about js: note WebApps just published Shadow DOM spec cs: maybe that´s where we tackle this issue js: PFWG already expects to have comments and thinks this group should review -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-shadow-dom-20121016/ Shadow DOM cs: @@ jf: so now in bug activity, discussion of CSS currently default CSS is display:none screen readers respect that, and don´t do anything now we´re saying there are situations where that native CSS handling would be changed cs: not sure that´s true for all UAs jf: have seen a lot of dumb implementations in sites, leading to things that don´t work in practice to me, if @hidden = display:none and you want AT to access, you have to change that default CSS cs: if you want more than something flattened into AAPI string, yes if we disallow method, allows structured text but not interactivity jf: but then you have something that´s not display:none cs: could have display:none stuff in a11y tree also jf: my concern is these cases aren´t specified leading to unanswered questions in the spec and you get a variety of incompatible implementations, or no ues cs: we previously punted to ¨until user agents¨ situation for now, maybe disallow and revisit later when we have v.next when we have AAPI support jf: great virtual beer session, but we need to resolve where this is going js: at some point we´ll have to have two implementations cs: won´t get that any time soon Windows will have to be next version of OS, a ways off this is a pretty big feature not sure what other platforms will do js: @@ cs: I will submit bug and reply to Maciej´s mail the CR argument does mean v.next js: let´s look across the board, maybe we´ll all prefer cs: but not for 5.0 timeframe js: so let´s consider actively for 5.1 if we want it so much we´re not trying to throw up obstreperious roadblocks, we have real concerns jf: understand there are real use cases just don´t to leave things undefined cs: so with this bug we are making non-support in HTML 5 an explicit decision makes it an area of research for people working on v.next changes like this depend on both OS and AT changes, long time to get both to happen js: @@ cs: even DOM-based AT that don´t depend on AAPI have long dev cycle jb: clarification cs: we wouldn´t be able to exit CR with this feature by 2014 so instead of putting in an at risk feature, should move it to v.next jb: this is about describedat? cs: about interactive content in hidden sub-dom toc: the open bug about @@ will drive @@ don´t expect implementation of @hidden = display:none to change 4 browsers shipped with that so we need to figure out what that means and document it need to figure out distinction between exposing to viewport and exposing to an API the more detail and bugs we get, the easier it is to move forward js: so we have next steps, can bring to agenda as needed Poster Alt Redux http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Oct/0062.html jf: my questions no longer concerns, have withdrawn formal objection Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Text cs: AAPI taking out pure MSAA column and working through implications of that after next week´s meeting, will have better idea of draft timeline js: need memorial service for MSAA cs: was groundbreaking at the time jf: +1 jb: Text hasn´t met recently no pressing issues would be useful to meet with editors about parts 1 & 2 on David MacDonald´s review of the alternative text perhaps just you and I could request meeting with editors per HTML Co-Chairs' suggestion that should come from TF facilitator mc: Bug traige hasn´t met in weeks Hans reviewed bugs some weeks ago found one to forward to TF The Task Force at the TPAC js: no formal meeting at TPAC but a lot of us will be there and many won´t could raise specific issues within HTML WG meeting Other Business js: now that Plan2014 adopted, we could start work on extension specs jb: please read the co-chairs´ announcement suggest the TF look at extension specs it might want to formally take up there are some suggestions floating around, but not yet officially delegated cs: would like making HTML to AAPI mapping doc an extension spec the ARIA version is normative, think this should be too js: timeframe of 5.0? cs: not sure js: we should review this proposal Summary of Action Items [End of minutes] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm> version 1.137 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/>) $Date: 2012/10/18 15:57:57 $ -- Michael Cooper Web Accessibility Specialist World Wide Web Consortium, Web Accessibility Initiative E-mail cooper@w3.org <mailto:cooper@w3.org> Information Page <http://www.w3.org/People/cooper/>
Received on Thursday, 18 October 2012 18:56:57 UTC