Minutes from the test sub team June 5

Here are the minutes from the alt text task force Tuesday Jun 5

 

http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html

 

 <http://www.w3.org/> W3C


- DRAFT -


SV_MEETING_TITLE


05 Jun 2012


See also: IRC log <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-irc> 


Attendees


Present

David_MacDonald, JF, Judy, Laura_Carlson, janina

Regrets

Chair

Judy

Scribe

David, Judy, JF


Contents


*	Topics <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#agenda>  

1.	Agenda review; identify scribe.
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item01> 
2.	Issue 30, longdesc: Timing concerns and expectations
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item02> 
3.	Issue 31b, buggy alts and buggy alt guidance: Remaining steps and
timeline? <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item03> 
4.	Issues 31c, meta generator: JB
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item04> & MS schedule work
session to move ahead
5.	Issue 194, transcript: Remaining discrepancies resolved in Tuesday's
teleconf? <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item05> 
6.	Issue 199, ARIA processing: Ted's reply on Michael's proposal still
expected for 6/7? <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item06> 
7.	Issue 204, ARIA hidden: Sam responded on strength of anticipated RFC
2119 objection? <http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item07> 
8.	Issue 203, media descriptors: JS checking TF support for Wiki
proposal ahead of June 10 call for counter-proposals?
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item08> 
9.	Issue 205, canvas text editor: JS
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#item09> & JB documenting
overlap on Action 217 intersection with Issues 201 & 205

*	Summary of Action Items
<http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html#ActionSummary> 

  _____  

<Judy> scribe: David


Agenda review; identify scribe.


<janina> Fighting with Zakim ...


Issue 30, longdesc: Timing concerns and expectations


<Judy> scribe: Judy

JB: Laura reminded us of the one-year anniversary of the HTML Co-Chairs'
commitment to expedite Issue 30: Longdesc, which is still pending. Do have
continued concerns about the time it has taken; had voiced concerns about
the potential for delays from 204, which seems to have occurred.

<laura>
<http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0149.html>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012May/0149.html

LC: Received email from Susan Taylor, Association of American Publishers,
expressing concern.

JB: We've continued to hear concern as well.

JF: Heard more from HTML Co-Chairs?

JB: JS and JB raise it at each coord meeting, but 204 is in queue before it
still.

LC: Will they be responding to my email?

JB: They seemed to prefer that JS or JB respond.

JS: We declined to reply, seems more their task; they wanted something more
substantive to respond with, on 204, but there 204 is still hung up.

JB: We'd said this would probably happen with 204.

JS: Did anyone ever respond to AAP's letter?

LC: Got assigned bug status.

JB: Latest reason 204 is stuck?

JS: Pending Sam's response about strong objection, since after my email to
the list last Thursday.

JB: I will include that reminder in my summary of the coordination call with
H5CC's from yesterday.


Issue 31b, buggy alts and buggy alt guidance: Remaining steps and timeline?


<David> scribe: David

JS: What is recap of next steps?

<JF> scribe: JF

JS: coordinating with David about how to present how wrong the guidance, and
examples, are
... believe I am on top of it, but need to review some older emails. Believe
Steve F was going to work on some alternative alt text - Action 54(?)

ultimately became Steve's authoring guide

however what seems to be lost is the reason for steve's doc - which was to
remove the bad alt text+

<laura>  <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/54

DM: so can we pull out the old stuff and insert the new stuff, or remove the
old stuff and point to Steve's doc
... so my task was to summarize what needed to be worked on in the HTML5
spec

JS: correct

JB: so next steps?

JS: recollection is to take David's succinct and detail "problem" list, and
turn it into bugs in bugzilla and maintain a table based on David's work
... Checked with Steve F, and we believe there are no other bugs - so we
need to create them

DM: so I need to start a table with the following columns

JS: 1) David's bulletted list of wrong guidance

2)

2) Pointer to where in spec (i.e. section number)

3) any bugs filed on that point/issue (bugzilla)

4) where contradicts WCAG 2 or other W3C Recs

5) Comments as required

6) where in Steve's document this is addressed

(these are row headings for columns)

JB: and can we add another or aux table which singles out where there is bad
alt text in the HTML5 spec

DM: WCAG 2 group have also been reviewing Steve's doc, and there is some
feedback forthcoming

JB: we need to connect the dots with Steve's document which speaks to the
guidance in the core HTML5 spec - pro or con?

DM: there may be a few overlaps, have not done a full cross-check to date

JB: I believe this is critical to do - to approach this holistically; if we
comment on these in isolation, it will only add to the confusion.

LC: Josh Steve and Laura started this document - there are notes in the
wiki, and in one of the drafts all that data is captured

<laura>  <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttribute>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttribute

<laura>  <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttributeSecondDraft>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttributeSecondDraft

<laura>  <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft>
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Action54AltAttributeThirdDraft

LC: in the third draft we forwarded it all to WCAG

I added comments - need to locate them

JB: perhaps JS and DM should review this as well and touch back to laura as
required

JS: question - is there an email from the original chairs (Dan and Chris)
that suggests that this was a task to replace the bad text with this

what was the understanding of the action?

JF: collectively this was an approach by a group of people

JB: sounds like the history question should not be totally put aside

but I think we need to think about next steps forward

DM: will need at least another week or so - perhaps after the 15th

JB: there is a pending last Call

DM: so we need to do this now

JB: yes

DM: is a time-managment issue
... will work at it over the next couple of days then - can't make a promise
but will apply best effort

DM could use some assistance with the bugs

JS: they are listed in Steve's recent email, can forward on

DM: that would be very helpful - cross-reference Steve's doc?

JS: yes

JB: it seems that initially it appeard to be written of SME - it needs to be
more General Population targetted


Issues 31c, meta generator: JB & MS schedule work session to move ahead


<scribe> scribe: David

<JF> ?me back to you sir


Issue 194, transcript: Remaining discrepancies resolved in Tuesday's
teleconf?


jf: The discussion is diverging again, strong push-back, people not
understanding normal transcript behaviours, Charles responded to her... 2
people from Apple want a no change jf wants programmatic association because
some authors want to hide the link
... there will be a wbs survey, the no change proposal will not be withdrawn
3 contenders, 6 in the mix
... sylvie available for 60 minutes tonight...

jb: if it stays diverged what is the next steps

jf: looking for consensus, ben objected, may not get consensus in task force
... i think that sylvia's draft proposal is in good shape...

jb: 1) ted no chantge 2) ted id refs anchors on page, 3) sylvia transcript
element

<Judy> jb was asking about status of the more accessibility-supporting
proposals, still not getting a clear picture

jb: engineers say cannot have link right out of element


Issue 199, ARIA processing: Ted's reply on Michael's proposal still expected
for 6/7?


<JF> s/chales/chaals/

<Judy> JS: will check with Ted on action 219 in html wg


Issue 204, ARIA hidden: Sam responded on strength of anticipated RFC 2119
objection?


<Judy> JB: summarize H5CC discussion yesterday and reping sam


Issue 203, media descriptors: JS checking TF support for Wiki proposal ahead
of June 10 call for counter-proposals?


<Judy> JS: yes, checking


Issue 205, canvas text editor: JS & JB documenting overlap on Action 217
intersection with Issues 201 & 205


<Judy> JB: summarizing the apparent cross-linked confusion that JS and JB
researched after coord meeting H5CC yesterday; pending action for this
afternoon

<janina> ++1

<Judy> JB: JS willing to chair?

<Judy> JS: yes

<Judy> JB: thanks!


Summary of Action Items


[End of minutes]

  _____  

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>  version
1.136 (CVS log <http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/> )
$Date: 2012/06/05 18:01:01 $ 
  _____  


Scribe.perl diagnostic output


[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]

This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.136  of Date: 2011/05/12 12:01:43  
Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/> 
 
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
 
Succeeded: s/occured/occurred/
Succeeded: s/WCAG @/WCAG 2/
Succeeded: s/holistically/holistically; if we comment on these in isolation,
it will only add to the confusion./
Succeeded: s/there is a pending heartbeat publish coming soon, and a pending
last Call/there is a pending last Call/
Succeeded: s/chales responded/The discussion is diverging again, strong
push-back, people not understanding normal transcript behaviours, Charles
responded to her/
Succeeded: s/jb/jf/
FAILED: s/chales/chaals/
Found Scribe: David
Inferring ScribeNick: David
Found Scribe: Judy
Inferring ScribeNick: Judy
Found Scribe: David
Found Scribe: JF
Inferring ScribeNick: JF
Found Scribe: David
Inferring ScribeNick: David
Scribes: David, Judy, JF
ScribeNicks: David, Judy, JF
Default Present: David_MacDonald, JF, Judy, Laura_Carlson, janina
Present: David_MacDonald JF Judy Laura_Carlson janina
 
WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
<dbooth> Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting
 
Got date from IRC log name: 05 Jun 2012
Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2012/06/05-text-minutes.html
People with action items: 
 
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
 
 

[End of scribe.perl
<http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/%7Echeckout%7E/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm>
diagnostic output] 

 

 

Cheers

David MacDonald

 

CanAdapt Solutions Inc.

  "Enabling the Web"

www.Can-Adapt.com <http://www.can-adapt.com/>