- From: John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 10:32:33 -0700
- To: "'Maciej Stachowiak'" <mjs@apple.com>
- Cc: "'Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis'" <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>, "'Sam Ruby'" <rubys@intertwingly.net>, <public-html@w3.org>, "'HTML Accessibility Task Force'" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Maciej Stachowiak wrote: > > I'm pretty sure I didn't suggest that. I don't think a mouth-stick user > who is not visually impaired would ever be exposed to the link, So then this technique is *ONLY* for visually impaired users? I want to be clear on what is being exactly proposed, as to date apparently this discussion seems to be clouded by some basic assumptions, one being that the longer textual description, hidden from sighted users (using @hidden) but semantically rich for visually impaired users, is being 'coded' only for that user group: the technique does not provide *any* access to the same content for sighted users. > because > they would not have access to the description. At least in Safari, > aria-describedby is only ever exposed via output-side assistive > technologies. ...with the exception (of course) to the monitor screen, which while also output driven, is a different output technology that your statement suggests people with disabilities would never use: Page Zooming isn't an assistive technology, the ability to change screen contrast or load user-style sheets are not assistive techniques/technologies, Visible focus of active elements is not "assistive", etc. (Conversely this would suggest that VoiceOver is *only* an assistive technology, that *only* people who are visually impaired would use) Maciej, in all sincerity and frankness, this is what you appear to be suggesting. Why should only a non-sighted user have access to the extended description? Without a means for *all* users to access this content, you are creating an artificial divide between sighted and non-sighted users with this technique. Outside of the moral and legal ramifications of what this segregation might suggest, it is at its very base a poor user experience for many sighted users who may also benefit from longer rich textual descriptions. Returning to a quote pulled from the Apple web site: "VoiceOver provides visual references to enable blind and sighted users to work together on the same computer at the same time." http://www.apple.com/accessibility/voiceover/ ...yet you have just suggested that a sighted user would never be exposed to the longer textual description: "I don't think a mouth-stick user who is not visually impaired would ever be exposed to the link" Which shall it be? How does this technique support Apple's own statement that sighted and non-sighted users can work together on the same computer at the same time? This also opens up a whole other series of questions: * If the rich textual description can only be accessed with an ARIA aware tool, how do authors test and maintain their output? * Would this content also be exposed to QA tools, such as link checkers? There have been numerous concerns raised over the notion of "link-rot" elsewhere (in the larger context of the @longdesc and other discussions), yet this would appear on the surface to be feeding into that concern - if the link-checker is not ARIA aware, it would respect the @hidden declaration and not "see" the link(s) that would be in the @hidden longer textual descriptions. It appears to me then that this would likely lead the inevitable link rot others such as Ted O'Connor and Tantek Celik (to name but 2) have referenced elsewhere. * Following on with that line of question, what (if any) impact would this technique have on SEO? Would not a longer textual description of an info-graphic see SEO benefits from a text-based alternative? With the current technique proposed, that content would (it seems to me anyway) also be hidden from crawlers as well - unless we have evidence that Google, Bing, Yandex (et al) are making their robots ARIA aware: remember that this construct is seeking to make @hidden 'special' only for non-sighted users. (I could imagine that the search engines would *NOT* want to index this @hidden content, as when their sighted users went looking for the text their search results suggest might be on a page it would not, in fact, appear on the page unless you are using an ARIA aware tool.) * If authors and QA tools cannot test their code without the assistance of an ARIA aware tool, what incentive is there for them to create the code in the first place? Until such time as we accept that *any* user might want to have access to a longer, rich text description of a complex image, and that *any* user requires a "switch" to access that content (using any modality that they can) we are failing. Creating a technique that includes a switch for VoiceOver, but not for sighted users is an inequity that is counter to open access of content on the web. On the bright side, you *are* thinking of how VoiceOver would provide a switch to access or not access the richer content, and so this appears to be on the right path. However, until such time that the sighted user is also exposed to the possibility of accessing a longer textual description, as well as a visible switching mechanism to act upon that choice, you have an incomplete solution which fails Apple's own statement: "...enable blind and sighted users to work together on the same computer at the same time." This is true whether it is for @longdesc, or for this new technique. > If we implemented the "encouraged" behavior, I would not > expect that to change. Thanks for the clarity. JF
Received on Wednesday, 15 August 2012 17:33:17 UTC