- From: Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>
- Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 18:54:35 +0100
- To: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Cc: "Michael[tm] Smith" <mike@w3.org>, public-html@w3.org, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>
hi ben, >I doubt a user agent would factor the presence of an attribute such as >@relaxed into its decision to indicate or not indicate the presence of >a particular image without a provided text alternative. In particular, >I doubt user agents which provide configuration for indicating or not >indicating such images (such as VoiceOver which allows users to ask it >to announce all images or only images "with descriptions") would >distinguish <img> and <img relaxed> as distinct categories in their >configuration UI. I don't presume to make such judgements without first having defined a proposed mechanism and sought feedback from end users and the accessibility engineers implementing such a mechanism in user agents. regards SteveF On 4 August 2012 15:29, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com> wrote: > On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Steve Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com> wrote: >>>The absence of @alt is an unambiguous indication that the image should >>>have a text alternative. Doesn't necessarily mean it's key to >>>understanding the content though. >> >> While you may disagree, that is what the HTML5 and HTML LS currently >> define it as. > > I was talking about what developers can effectively communicate with, > and what UAs can (and do) reasonably assume from, its absence, rather > than merely what the spec says about it, but in any case it agrees > with what I was saying AFAICT: > > "If the src attribute is set and the alt attribute is not … The image > might be a key part of the content, and there is no textual equivalent > of the image available." > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/the-img-element.html#the-img-element > > It says "might be" not "is". This is the correct inference, I feel. > >> When an image is the content of a figure element it is not unabiguous >> <figure> >> <img> >> <figcaption>text</figcaption> >> </figure> > > Yeah, I take it as read that we are using presence of @alt as a > shorthand for presence of @alt or other (non-repair) source of text > alternative. > >>> User agents (as opposed to linters) have to treat images without @alt >>> with or without the linter flag the same, >> >> why? currently firefox for example does not display any visible >> indication of an image when it has not alt attribute, why is that >> useful for users who have images disabled? > > I'm not saying it is or isn't, though I do think user agents should be > free to render as they see fit. > > I doubt a user agent would factor the presence of an attribute such as > @relaxed into its decision to indicate or not indicate the presence of > a particular image without a provided text alternative. In particular, > I doubt user agents which provide configuration for indicating or not > indicating such images (such as VoiceOver which allows users to ask it > to announce all images or only images "with descriptions") would > distinguish <img> and <img relaxed> as distinct categories in their > configuration UI. > > Maybe an <img relaxed> would be less likely to be a spacer image. But > I think there are more reliable heuristics for detecting spacer images > than looking for the absence of @relaxed, for example looking at > filename, intrinsic image size, color variance, repetition of the > image, and legacy traits of surrounding code. > > In practice, spacer images are rare in new content where you could > treat the absence of @relaxed as a signal. For recent content a bigger > challenge to alerting users to key content is the abuse of CSS > background images to speed loading of content images like news photos > and galleries. > > @relaxed is such a weak signal for user agents that I doubt the value > of pushing it into the accessibility APIs, that's all. > > -- > Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis -- with regards Steve Faulkner Technical Director - TPG www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com | www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner HTML5: Techniques for providing useful text alternatives - dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ Web Accessibility Toolbar - www.paciellogroup.com/resources/wat-ie-about.html
Received on Saturday, 4 August 2012 17:55:45 UTC