- From: Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis <bhawkeslewis@googlemail.com>
- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 10:32:06 +0100
- To: Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com>
- Cc: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>, Janina Sajka <janina@rednote.net>, HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, John Foliot <john@foliot.ca>, Joshue O Connor <joshue.oconnor@cfit.ie>, Judy Brewer <jbrewer@w3.org>, "david100@sympatico.ca" <david100@sympatico.ca>, Richard Schwerdtfeger <schwer@us.ibm.com>, James Nurthen <james.nurthen@oracle.com>, Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>, "Jonas Sicking (jonas@sicking.cc)" <jonas@sicking.cc>
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 12:25 AM, Cynthia Shelly <cyns@microsoft.com> wrote: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Correct_Hidden_Attribute_Section_v2#Accessibility_API_mappings I have a lot of doubts about the general intent of the CP, but in this email I just want to give some feedback on the proposed text for the spec. Proposed text: "@hidden is equivalent to the CSS display:none construct." This isn't good normative text. What does "equivalent" mean here? For instance, does it mean @hidden is an authorial presentational suggestion rather than semantic markup critical to the meaning of the content? Proposed text: "For example, it would be incorrect to use the href attribute to link to a section marked with the hidden attribute." The WHATWG text establishes the authoring conformance requirements much more clearly: "Elements that are not themselves hidden must not hyperlink to elements that are hidden. The for attributes of label and output elements that are not themselves hidden must similarly not refer to elements that are hidden." I suggest adopting that language wholesale, modulo the label element if we want to allow that. "It would similarly be incorrect to use the ARIA aria-flowto or aria-owns attributes to refer to descriptions that are themselves hidden, as these elements are not available to the user." This suffers from the same unclear language ("incorrect" rather than "must not"). Also, shouldn't this be defined by normative text in ARIA not HTML5 - authors should not set the targets of these properties to elements with the aria-hidden property? Proposed text: "Since the content is not rendered, linking to it would have unpredicatble behavior, either dropping the user at a location with no rendered content, or failing to navigate." "unpredictble" is misspelled. Specifications make the behavior predictable, invalidating this rationale. HTML and CSSOMView currently define that a navigation action occurs (history changes etc.) but the viewport is not scrolled: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/history.html#scroll-to-fragid http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cssom-view/#element-scrolling-members Perhaps what you mean is that this behavior is unexpected by the user? Proposed text: "Any structure in the referenced element, including headings, links, tables, paragraphs, and form elements, will be lost. The text children of the element will be flattened to a string. As such, authors should only use this technique for string content. At the time of this writing, some screen reader products will read both the accessible name and accessible description, so authors should take care with the length of text provided via this method." These drawbacks apply to @aria-labelledby and @aria-describedby for non-@hidden content too, so this text doesn't belong in guidance for @hidden. (You could perhaps note that @hidden makes navigation to labelling and describing elements impossible.) What does "authors should only use this technique for string content" mean? e.g. Is this supposed to discourage marking up descriptions with microdata, for example? Why is it a "should" not a "must"? What we want is for the accessible name and description calculated from the markup to be good names and descriptions. That's not the same as avoiding semantic markup (e.g. RDFa, microdata, language change indications). -- Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
Received on Friday, 20 April 2012 09:32:58 UTC