- From: Gregory J. Rosmaita <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 17:33:53 +0000
- To: public-html-a11y@w3.org
aloha!
minutes from the 24 february 2011 meeting of the HTML Accessibility Task
Force can be obtained as hypertext at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html
as an IRC log at:
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-irc
and as plain text following this announcement -- as usual, please log
any corrections, clarifications, mis-attributions, and the like by
replying to this announcement on-list...
note that 2 new action items were assigned at the 24 februaary 2011
meeting:
* ACTION-105: Gregory - review w3c bugzilla installation versus
newest version 4, coordinate with those who volunteered, present
options and needs
* http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01
* http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/105
* ACTION-106: Gregory - prepare keyboard access high-level issues
discussion for F2F
* http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02
* http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/106
_________________________________________________________
- DRAFT -
HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
24 Feb 2011
Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0210.html
See also: IRC log - http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-irc
Attendees
Present
Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot,
Léonie_Watson, Marco_Ranon, Martin_Kliehm, Michael_Cooper,
MikeSmith, Rich, Steve_Faulkner, paulc
Regrets
Laura_Carlson, Janina_Sajka
Chair
Mike_Smith
Scribe
oedipus
Contents
* Topics
1. Canvas Subteam Report
2. Media Subteam Report
3. Bug Triage Subteam Report
4. ARIA Mapping Subteam
5. Change Proposal for Issue 134
6. Face2Face Meeting
* Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
Canvas Subteam Report
RS: canvas subteam proposal -- number of facets to canvas a11y -- 1.
provide accessible interfaces to AT that can be accessed to
represent what is seen in canvas
<trackbot> Date: 24 February 2011
RS: support in IE9 RC beta and in chrome (in the last week)
... hardest part about canvas is getting fallback content loaded --
hidden from user, hidden content usually not mapped; now can map and
can focus on other needs
<MikeSmith>
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-131
RS: 2) need to be able to have a FocusRing follow system settings
(color, background, font size, etc.) -- support for author to draw
FocusRing while reporting focus position to AT -- simplified
drawFocusRing -- had an issue where if author wantede to draw
himself,would drop out of FocusRing and couldn't be reported -- now,
forcing FocusRing to follow system conventions -- if system has...
... FocusRing drawing mechanism, uses that -- outlined algorithm
into how can compute bounding rectangle for object and object info
DOM -- if no drawing path, will be handled by UA
<MichaelC> scribe: oedipus
RS: old drawFocusRing took x,y coordinates -- not how you draw
carets for text boxes; always moving focus -- on every platform,
selection and carets a11y APIs separate from what need for FocusRing
... created setCaretSelectionRect -- forget if have RTE or not in
Canvas, gives author ability to give position whether user selecting
content or using cursor -- defines what caret position and selectoin
position is and exposes that to AT
... need contestual info (element) and actual caret position so can
center zoom point on caret based on magnification level -- may want
caret to left of zoom, etc.
... 3rd part: provide ability to get system setting for blink rate
-- for those who suffer from seizures -- author can detect if blink
rate set to custom level in system
... 4th: put in for metric for baseline for text --FocusRing or
caret or selection position within content associated with text can
get baseline to compute actyual bounding rectangle
... hixie ok with plan, question is when?
... testing the proposal with actual tools
... 1 more requirement for magnification -- need position and
bounding rectangle for any part of the canvas -- challange will be
to introduce this before last call -- something we can't rush
through -- some optoins --could do what imagemap does to provide x,y
and bounding rectangle or can use CSS styling -- querying devs which
would you prefer
MS: process in HTML WG -- issue state: waiting for alternate or
counter proposals -- due date 22 March 2011
... if objections, objector should write counter-proposal before 22
March 2011
RS: would like to hear thoughts on positioning of content
MS: take to discussion on public-html list
... great to hear canvas a11y progress
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Meetings/Minutes
RS: assuming we don't get pushback like to try to get ua devs to
implement it -- FF and IE trying to get out new versions, so not
much flexibility there
MS: squeaky wheel gets the grease -- discrete amount of time to
accomodate HTML a11y
Media Subteam Report
JF: single largest issue remaining is multitrak API -- how to
provide support to supplementary binary assets -- lot of discussion
-- looked at 8 different ways forward -- polled people on call,
still some divergence especially amongst UA devs
... this is new territory -- not repairing bugs, but building in and
extending capabilities
... 1 change proposal against HTML WG Issue 152
<MikeSmith>
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-152
JF: consensus on call to continue in fashion we have been using --
dialogue on list -- much common ground but still some divergence
... for f2f in march 2001, media subteam would like break-out
session -- ideally on saturday -- so we can get together in same
room and hash out details -- most of ateendees from weekly calls
will be there -- silviaP trying to get funding to attend
... should have another change proposal in by March with internal
consensus behind it
MS: HTML WG issue 152 is waiting for counter proposals -- change
proposal submitted from silvia?
JF: no, i think FrankO of Microsoft
... silvia thinking of writing a CP; apple reps might write one,
maybe a third; if stopped today would have to work through 3 or 4 --
thought best if could coalesce around CP that meets everyone's
approval
MS: chairs have to evaluate each CP -- if can merge into common CP,
that is preferable
JF: right, that is our goal
... a lot of issues coming to the attention of people -- more than
a11y -- i18n, "widestreaming" -- complex topic
... very aware of 22 March 2011 deadline, but don't want to ruch --
we need to get this right
MS: should devote F2F time to this issue -- if need breakout
session, then could do that
JF: not sure of agenda and logistics for F2F -- will discuss with
Cooper
... engineers need to discuss low-level engineering as well
MC: should have time in agenda for breakouts -- media subgroup meet
an addtitional day?
JF: not feasible
MC: ok, just checking
MS: should accomodate breakouts as needed
JF: issue of time stamp formats still quite open -- hearings in U.S.
at FCC about mandating captioning -- keeping eye on that -- U.S. may
mandate specific technology which will impact development
Bug Triage Subteam Report
MK: down to almost no bugs to which to apply a11ytf keyword --
looked at all marked a11y to see if needed a11ytf attention and
keyword
... looking at what appears each week
<kliehm> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10525
<MikeSmith> "Please try to improve Bugzilla's
accessibility/usability problems before Last Call"
MK: would be good if someone in TF could handle HTML WG bug 10525 --
needs owner, needs to be done
GJR: i will do a bugzilla review of w3c version versus current
version (version 4, recently released)
<scribe> ACTION: Gregory - review w3c bugzilla installation versus
newest version 4, coordinate with those who volunteered, present
options and needs [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-105 - - review w3c bugzilla installation
versus newest version 4, coordinate with those who volunteered,
present options and needs [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2011-03-03].
ARIA Mapping Subteam
SF: haven't had meeting lately -- waiting on the chairs to address
issues outlined in CPs -- timeline?
MS: chairs haven't yet scheduled date -- perhaps paulc can comment
PC: issue number?
SF: 129
<MikeSmith>
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-129
PC: not in current queue
... did receive request about this via public-html
... reason why wanted decision on this issue?
RS: because we have a lot of work to do with UA devs
PC: has impact outside of WG, right?
RS: yes
PC: not clear in original message
MS: does resolution of this issue have implementation impact on UAs
SF: yes, definitely
RS: replaced ARIA section to define where ARIA can and cannot be
applied
<paulc> Other than the intro and signature the request only said:
"When will the chairs have a decision on the straw poll vote on
issue 129?"
SF: part about doc conformance; default roles defined in ARIA user
agents must implement -- default role on element, has to apply that
role -- one of the major issues
MS: should be prioritizing talk with chairs
PC: RS provided no rationale as to why chairs should consider
earlier
RS: don't know what your queue looks like -- understand need for
deadlines -- we rushed to meet it, and then it sits there, which is
frustrating --
<JF> +1 to Rich
PC: only making the point that if the chairs get 5 emailis
requesting review need to know why so important to requesting
entities
... suggest RS respond to own message as to why an earlier decision
on ARIA in HTML5 is needed
... are moving forward with change proposal review
... some issues may moot others -- chairs prioritize on ratinoale
given to us by WG memberts, suggest RS do the same
MS: will follow up on this too to ensure gets into charis' queue
... default roles is higher priority than document conformance
SF: people are implementing HTML5 now, basing decisions on what is
in spec, hence urgency
RS: have product teams implementing HTML5 now so need to get
addressed
<Stevef>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2011Feb/0399.html
SF: there was a call for change in regards issue 161 (A11y API
Mapping) -- expired yesterday -- sam sent out notice that "closed
without prejudice" -- responded to him saying would provide CP today
-- working on document now including advice as to how to procede
<MikeSmith>
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-161
MS: not going to do anything about it but leave to discretion of
chairs -- not going to second guess chairs' decisons on
SF: would lilke a reasonably timely reply -- don't want to wait 2
weeks to find out won't be opened
PC: if submit change proposal today, chairs will at least consider
it -- 4 due yesterday -- chairs immediately requested counter
proposals to be completed by 22 March 2011 --schedule to LC needs to
give people writing coutner proposals as much time to compose as
given to thiose writing CPs
... i speak for Paul and not for all 3 co-chairs
SF: the issue says create a reference -- creating document -- wo'n't
be ready for LC, asking to have reference to docuement in HTML5
... issue is to have a reference to it
PC: don't see why HTML5 in LC can't reference an editor's draft --
no logistical or administrative barrier to that
<richardschwerdtfe> gotta drop off folks
SF: only thing been told is hixie stating "special status" for
referenced documents in HTML5, but hasn't articulated what
constitutes a "special status"
PC: i don't know what he means by that either
... why did you miss this deadlijne?
... been there for a moth -- on last weeks' WG agenda as closing
next week -- TF needs to pay more attention to these dates
SF: human error -- previously with human error hixie has been given
extentions
PC: concewrned we are speaking in circles here
SF: will get CP in today, wanted clarification on what CP should say
so would be accepted
MS: SF please try to join HTML WG call at noon to discuss
SF: can't make those calls because have to pick up kids from school
RS: chairs pretty swamped -- what is big deal if don't get into
today
PC: sam took action item to call for counterporopsals if submitted
by today -- immediately ready to take action -- longer it takes to
file CP, less time people have to do counter proposal, which may
sway chairs to leave issue closed because unfair to counter
proposals because original propoasal deadline extended
... want to ensure that TF undertstands pressure on the chairs
Change Proposal for Issue 134
HTML A11y TF Action-87 "Create change proposal for ISSUE-134
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134":
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/87
<MikeSmith> oedipus: allow menu and command to represent a tablist
HTML WG ISSUE-134: "Provide tablist and tab states for menu and
command elements respectively"
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134
bound to HTML Bug 10831:
http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10831
change proposal for HTML WG ISSUE 134:
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/tablist_and_tab_states_for_menu_and_command_elements
(thansk to everett zufelt and jason kiss)
<inserted> scribenick: MikeSmith
oedipus: the state of tab controls is normally only visually
indicated
and this makes cases for tabs are unfocusable
current state is that this creates much more work for Web
devlopers
but there is a solution for this, which is to provide support
natively
<inserted> scribenick: oedipus
"The HTML5 menu element, along with the command element, can
currently represent a menu, context menu, or toolbar. Since a group
of tab controls effectively acts as a menu of command elements for
showing and hiding associated content tab panels, it is, therefore,
proposed that the menu and command elements are well-suited to serve
the purposes of a tabbed interface, and that their functionality be
extended to represent a tablist of tab controls and to identify
which of those tabs is selected. "
" * Add a tablist state to the menu element.
* Add a tab state to the command element.
* Add a tabpanel state to command element.
* Add a tabgroup attribute to the command element."
<richardschwerdtfe> those are role values
"If no action is taken on this issue, then, without developers doing
rather significant work to make a tabbed interface accessible using
WAI-ARIA and additional scripting, only the selected tab in each
tablist will be focusable, meaning that the remaining tabs from each
tablist will not be available or accessible to assistive
technologies."
<MikeSmith>
http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-134
<richardschwerdtfe> dropping now folks. sorry
<JF> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-134
richard correct tablist, tab, and tabpanel would be @role values
tabgroup would be a new attribute on command element
Face2Face Meeting
<MikeSmith>
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0210.html
MS: list of proposed topics
... have some cases of miscommunication about process -- would like
to prevent going forward -- useful to have process discussion and
decision policy document and some of the contentious issues around
communication
... 2nd) session on how to write a good change proposal -- how to
avoid accusations of incomplete
... tuturial on change proposal writing would be helpful --
volunteers?
... 3rd) discussion over technologies: media, canvas, how to procede
with longdesc, ARIA integration
... ambiguity about keyboard access
MS: bugs and issues that need to be brought to the WG's attention
qck oed
<inserted> scribenick: MikeSmith
oedipus: I can prepare a keyboard-access overview and current-status
focusing on high-level and discrete issues
I will attend remotely
I would like to go through it all
so I can present what are issues, what has changed
<Stevef> chane proposal for issue 161
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2011Feb/0212.html
Stevef, thanks
<Stevef> np
<oedipus> ACTION: Gregory - prepare keyboard access high-level
issues discussion for F2F [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-106 - - prepare keyboard access high-level
issues discussion for F2F [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2011-03-03].
<inserted> scribenick: oedipus
JF: need to plan timeframe for 2 days -- even a skeleton at this
point would be helpful
MS: narrow down to day and part of day you will have critical mass
JF: want to do breakout in afternoon to accommodate austrialian time
zoners
MS: can discuss on mailing list -- will kick off discussion with
list of topics -- try to send out tomorrow
[ADJOURNED]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: Gregory - prepare keyboard access high-level issues
discussion for F2F [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: Gregory - review w3c bugzilla installation versus
newest version 4, coordinate with those who volunteered, present
options and needs [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2011/02/24-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 24 February 2011 17:34:24 UTC