minutes: HTML Accessibility TF telecon 2010-05-13 [draft]

aloha!

minutes from today's HTML Accessibility Task Force Meeting are available
as hypertext at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html

as an IRC log at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-irc

and as plain text following my signature -- thanks to JohnF for minuting

as usual, please log any corrections, clarifications, mis-attributions 
and the like by replying-to this announcement on-list

note that 1 new Action item was assigned at the 13 May 2010 HTML A11y TF
telecon:

  [NEW] ACTION-44: Cynthia - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when
  SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's
  note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5
  based on SteveF's alt doc
  * recorded in http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02
  * http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

    _________________________________________________________

W3C

                             - DRAFT -

            HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

13 May 2010

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0109.html

  See also: IRC log [http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-irc]

Attendees

  Present
         Cooper, Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, Frank_Oliver,
         Gregory_Rosmaita, Janina, Janina_Sajka, John_Foliot,
         Marco_IRC_only, Mike, Sean_Hayes, jon

  Regrets
         Laura_Carlson, Sylvia_Pfieffer, Denis_Boudreau,
         Steve_Faulkner, Kelly_Ford, Ben_Caldwell, Matt_May, 
         Kenny_Johar

  Chair
         Janina

  Scribe
         JF, John_Foliot

Contents

    * Topics
        1. Action Items Review
        2. Sub-Group Updates
        3. Bug Disposition Proposals
    * Summary of Action Items
    _________________________________________________________

  <trackbot> Date: 13 May 2010

  <Marco_Ranon> Hi All. I can't dial in but I'll be following on irc.

  <Marco_Ranon> Thanks.

  <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

  <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka

  <janina> agenda: this

  <MichaelC> agenda:
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/0109.html

Action Items Review

  Action items review

  <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - items

  <MikeSmith> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

  Action 25 on Steve

  <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 25

  <scribe> ACTION: 25 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

  <trackbot> Sorry, bad ACTION syntax

  <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/25

  Authoring guidance document - Alt Techniaues

  <MichaelC> close action-25

  <trackbot> ACTION-25 Post notice to a11y TF about
  http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/ and how to make comments
  closed

  Action-28

  on greg

  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/28

  Greg: decdied that adding this as an apendix will be distracting

  will continue to work on this in the wiki

  <MichaelC> action-28 due 27 May

  <trackbot> ACTION-28 - prepare text for SteveF's guidance document
  about future of data-mining using RDFPic methodology outlined in
  post to list due date now 27 May

  decide to keep open - push the date to may 27

  2 Actions open, all others in sub-groups

Sub-Group Updates

  Janina: Canvas appears still stuck, awaiting feedback from Apple

  <jongunderson> zakim ??P22 is jon

  still on track for deadline (June 3)

  Windows and Linux seem ok, but don't know about Apple

  <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2010/05/10-html-a11y-minutes

  ERic: will talk to Maciej - who promised to get on it
  ... suggests to remnid Maciej on the larger WG call

  not heard anything from Chaals re: Image-map proposal

  <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas

  believe both can co-exist

  ARIA group on track for June 24th

  <oedipus> scribenick: oedipus

  <JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/products/2

  <JF>
  http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media

  <JF> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/MultimediaAccessibility

  JF: had good call yesterday -- needs assessment was the main topic -
  a11y requirements for media wiki document
  ... concern that not all user groups not all represented - JBrewer
  soliciting feedback/input from deafblind community; more feedback
  from DAISY on architectural structure
  ... please review media work - break down reqs to bullet and action
  items this week
  ... progress being made - Javascript API and TimeText Association -
  fine, but no active work until reqs doc completed
  ... other topic we need to discuss is WebSRT -- a lot of activity on
  list -- hixie did remove WebSRT from W3C version of spec; still in
  WHAT WG version
  ... still need to have discussion on what timestamp format or
  formats will be supported
  ... will be monitoring listmail on topic - next week, where do we go
  from here - timed text or WebSRT or both

  JS: please review requirements document -- thanks to Sean for
  compiling:
  http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Accessibility_Requirements_of_Media

  <JF> encourage all to review the Accessibility Requirements doc

  JS: timeline - another week for reqs gathering, then compare with
  tech currently on table and identifying gaps and reach out to
  communities to ensure that we are reaching all target audiences

  <JF> Janina: hypertext pf coordinations express great interest of
  this document

  <inserted> Scribe: JF

  requesting a presentation of said in June

  Discussion of new content (media items) in W3C Spec document

  draft resolution of last week

  however events have now made the CfC moot, as Ian removed that text
  from W3C draft

  questions of "scope" for the HTML5 docu

  time formats (Web SRT)

  likely will split out to a seperate spec document

  suggestion to just drop Cfc? non objections

Bug Disposition Proposals

  Michel has a number of bugs + suggestions on how to deal

  <MichaelC> Bug disposition proposals
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010May/att-0030/display_focus_label_semantic.html

  MichaelC

  <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8652

  Proposed to close bug

  Janina: announced that we would return to editorial issues on a
  second pass

  discussion of length and understandability of the current text

  Cyns: expressing concern about how this will be received

  Janina: we should get some successes under our belt before we take
  on editorial issuse

  Cyns: we should make a new bug regarding the text

  Greg: once we get guidance into the ALT document from Steve, then we
  can add or modify

  we should be working on advancing STeve's docu, then work on
  ensuring that conflicting text is modified or removed from the HTML5
  Draft

  MichaelC on 8652, should we close it?

  Addressed by Text Alternatives proposal

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8657

  <oedipus> ACTION: Cynthia - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec;
  when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in
  SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes
  to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - - monitor status of @alt in HTML5
  spec; when SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is
  in SteveF's note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose
  changes to HTML5 based on SteveF's alt doc [on Cynthia Shelly - due
  2010-05-20].

  related to media - problem with user-agents. If they support media
  format, and it doesn't load, then it does not present fall-back
  content

  MichaelC: should be referred to media sub-group

  Eric: agrees that this should go to Media sub-grou

  Assign to: JF (no objections)

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8671

  beleives has been resolve - should close?

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8673

  Command element apepars to have different functions, might cause
  author issues

  Cyns: has a work item in mapping task-force

  elements are going to change role based on context

  beleives that work will address this bug

  assigned to Cyns, related to mapping sub-group

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8717

  believe we can accept as Fixed and close this

  relates to legacy behavior, so we should close

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8723

  Image map un-specified

  needs a proposal, but not urgent

  will assign to Chaals with deadline

  if nothing in, then close without prejeduce

  MichaelC: this might be complex, we should likely give hime 4 weeks

  Deadline of JUne 10, close after that if no proposal

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8738

  do we want to live with the command api as it exists, or push for
  role-based support?

  relates to access element

  Greg: working on access element proposal by end of this week

  Cyns: sounds like it needs more investigation

  look at access vs command

  Cyns looking at command stuff this week - will coordinate with Greg

  discuss off-line?

  Cyns: believes they will be taling about cammand stuff in the
  mapping sub-group in the next week or 2

  <oedipus> cyns, your previously assigned action item is
  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/44

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8747

  MichaelC - propose we close this one - suggests that RDFa can do the
  job

  do we want this approach (RDFa) to be put into the spec?

  not 100% accessibility issue

  Cyns: don't believe this is for a11y to worry about

  <oedipus> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/

  <oedipus> Support for RDFa in HTML4 and HTML5:
            http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/

  will wait for 2-day call for review of any action items discussed
  today

  will ping Manu about 8747

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8750

  unclear about the hidden attribute

  is different from the CSS 'hiding' techniques

  is a non-issue

  will close

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8144

  MichaelC we should likely 'untrack' it

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8554

  progress element should be labelable with a label

  can be done, we should untrack

  <oedipus>
  http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=4530&to=4531

  Greg: Ian said he would make meter and progress full form controls
  and move them into that section

  Janina: we should follow that then

  they are now labelable

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8622

  if we believe that user-agent issues should be in spec, we need an
  owner ass there is not enough data in the bug

  MichaelC: believe that this should be in spec, but this could go
  either way

  <oedipus> MikeSmith affirmed that change made to
  http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/ that <progress> <meter> and
  <output> are now labelable with <label>

  MichaelC: suggest assigning it to Jim Allan or Kelley Ford of UAAG

  Janina: philosophical question here: does this belong inside the
  HTML5 spec?

  MichaelC: feels that this should be in spec

  <oedipus>
  http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/forms.html#the-label-element

  Janina: perhaps review other items that require further discussion
  and defer actual action until next time

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8752

  MichaelC: beleives spec says enough

  http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8754

  MichaelC: defines what happens when there is more text than display
  zone - what happens when you re-size

  this should be addressed more concrete in spec - related to zooming,
  overflow, etc.

  again likely UAAG issue

  <oedipus> JF: would like to re-review and chew on it a bit

  ERic: agrees that this needs more consideration,might be a big
  change in behavior

  <MikeSmith> oedipus, in regard to what elements the spec defines as
  being labelable, see
  http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/forms.html#category-label .. the
  complete list is currently button input keygen meter output progress
  select textarea

  Janina: sounds like we need to return to this point next week

  <oedipus> MikeSmith, thanks for the clarification

  <MikeSmith> np

  JF: should we request that members of UAAG attend next call?

  Janina: perhaps send out an email to the group with a heads-up for
  next week

  <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/IFRAME

  MichaelC: will send somthing around

  Janina: will send out CfC's on the various bugs discussed today -
  most to close

  <oedipus> IFrame Accessibility Inquiry & Fact Gathering wiki page:
            http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/IFRAME

  give a couple days for feedback

  discussion of survey mechanism

  MichaelC: one survey per bug

  MichaelC will create a survey

  Janina: some of the questions we are looking at are being canvased
  at larger working group

  please and thanks Greg

Summary of Action Items

  [NEW] ACTION: Cynthia - monitor status of @alt in HTML5 spec; when
  SteveF's Alt Guidance is published, ensure that what is in SteveF's
  note supersedes or corrects HTML5 verbiage; propose changes to HTML5
  based on SteveF's alt doc [recorded in
  [47]http://www.w3.org/2010/05/13-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

  [End of minutes]
    _________________________________________________________