- From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:59:40 +0100
- To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
- Cc: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>, public-html-a11y@w3.org, Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>, Steven Faulkner <faulkner.steve@gmail.com>, John Foliot <jfoliot@stanford.edu>
Gregory J. Rosmaita, Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:42:01 +0000: ... > however, what is a simple equation to you or me, may not be so simple to > users with various forms of cognitive issues... However: this is also the point. For example, lots in this internationalized world happens in the mono-language: English. People uses English blog software, and get English captchas. Like it has been said about Microsoft: Monoculture is a danger. Simply by providing a Norwegian captcha about Norwegian issues, I could reduce the spam alot! (Spam filtering is often much simpler for us non-Englishmen, since all those English e-mail subject titles - because I don't know many in person that would say "You" in English, to me - if you get what I mean. With an Norwegian captcha I could filter out very many spammers ... Do you say that there is something bad in that? If so then there must be something wrong in the HTTP content-language header as well ... - as it is used to filter the language of the audience ... Btw: Last year, I switched to using a IDN domain name for my e-mail account. And I can tell you: Just by doing that, the spam I receive sunk drastically. (I still have the old address, and the spam seem 99.5% to be sent to that address.) .... > http://norman.walsh.name/ > > when i first tried norm's solution i had a screaming migraine at the > time, and couldn't figure out a simple multiplication equation -- > hence, my comments never made it to norm's blog feedback section, > and i became "sensitized" to the cognative issues inherent in a > logical/mathematical query... We all have stories about blogs that we didn't bother to comment because we couldn't stand the thought of going through all that it demands ... (There is a local newspaper here which requires that you be a dollar a month to comment on their pages - a very effective captcha, you could say!) I understand that barriers can more greater barriers to some than others. But if we didn't need barriers, then there wouldn't be any ... Of course, I support that we ease the barriers. > the other thing that worries me about the use of equations as an > alternate to CAPTCHA, is that sooner, rather than later, equations > will be expressed as a series of graphics, in order to (a) stop a bot > from screen-scraping, and (b) sell graphical equations under the rubric > that they provide double protection - protection from a text-readng bot, > because the graphical components of the equation will not be ALT texted, > as that would make it possible for a bot to obtain the equation, and, if > smart enough, solve it... I think that calculations and stuff like that is a very old idea already. Are there really signs that things become worse? > i discussed approaches to human-verification tests in 2006 with daniel > dardailler, who believes that a simpler solution is to use logical > questions that are based on human experience and not on mathematical > eequations, which computers are quite able to compute... for example: > > Q: what happens when you touch a hot stove? > > Q: what do you do when someone tells you a funny joke? Sounds like good ideas. However, I have to say that what makes people stumble really differs a lot. Predicting how humans react is hard. As you described yourself above. > and other human-related quote real world unquote challanges... these, > however, are culturally-based queries, and many have more than one > correct answer (for example, when i touch a hot stove, i swear a > blue streak, whereas the answer the question may simply be a variation > on "get burnt" "burn hand" "burn myself"; moreover, any natural language > challange presents an immediate internationalization problem, which is > why implementors such as norm walsh chose the quote universal unquote > language of mathematics... Ha ha. I18N *problem*? Sorry, but I18N is part of the solution. Or, the point is: it is neither nor. > dave poehlman also had an interesting idea -- express the equation in > words; for example: > > Q: seven minus five equals: > > a good idea to ward off bots, but there is still the problem of one > person's simple equation being another person's nightmare... Good idea. But again, it would have been more "internationalized" if he used numbers! What an evil man. Ho ho. > for more information on CAPTCHA discussions which have transpired > since the publication of the Turing Test note, please refer to the > CAPTCHA note update wiki page, located at: > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CAPTCHA_v2 Thanks, I am not very much into A11Y issues w.r.t. this subject. I see that there is enough reading material there. Smile. -- leif halvard silli
Received on Friday, 19 March 2010 01:04:34 UTC