- From: Leif Halvard Silli <xn--mlform-iua@xn--mlform-iua.no>
- Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 02:08:54 +0100
- To: "public-html-a11y@w3.org" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
- Cc: Charles McCathieNevile <chaals@opera.com>, "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>, Gez Lemon <g.lemon@webprofession.com>
Gez wrote - some replies back: >>>> If the reason for making it an element is that authors can >>>> provide richer markup, then I think we're definitely outside >>>> the territory of a concise overview of the structure of a data >>>> data table, and more into summary being a long description of >>>> the table. To which I listed 3 reasons for making it an element: >>{1} [to] Avoid to duplicate content from the caption [...] >>{2} programmatically detectable [WCAG2 programmatic determination] > {3} keep the table's caption clean/useful [HTML5 blurs it] W.r.t. {1}: If the purpose is to avoid duplicate content, then it is good to keep the table caption and the table summary close to each other. Inside the same element seems like the best thing to me. If we want to avoid that data rot etc, then it might be good if the table summary defaults to visible - at least in editors. W.r.t. {1}, then I therefore think a dedicated element as child of <caption> has the best effect. W.r.t. {2}: {2} is is not relevant in contrast to @summary, but is relevant in contrast to placing a table summary - or any description - inside the <caption> - which is what HTML5 recommends doing: As soon as you start to place caption unrelated (description) stuff in the <caption>, then it becomes difficult to avoid that @summary duplicates this info. So putting descriptive info inside <caption> very soon becomes a reason to not use @summary. I don't say that a text which only focuses on the non-visual needs for a table summary, could be more useful to "non-visual users", than a more general description would be - I simply say that it is very difficult to avoid duplicate content this way. Btw, and also w.r.t. {2}: When I tried to understand 'programmatically determine' w.r.t. 'table summary' [1], then I concluded that HTML4 (and WCAG2) require that you either use @summary, or that you place the table summary text directly in the <caption>. Of course, HTML4 doesn't count in that <caption> might contain block elements with long descriptions. If this interpretation is correct, then the fact that you place the table summary inside the <caption> is not a reason to have a dedicated table summary element. OTOH, when considering technique H39, then perhaps WCAG2 has a more narrow understanding of <caption>, than HTML4 has: [2] "The caption element identifies the table whereas the summary attribute gives an overview of the purpose or explains how to navigate the table." If so, then not only HTML5's lack of @summary, but also HTML5's permission to have block elements/descriptions inside <caption> breaks WCAG2. W.r.t. {3}: this is also an effect of HTML5's permission for block elements (or, indeed, the table summary itself), inside <caption>. Conclusion: As soon as we permit no-caption stuff inside <caption>, then an element solution becomes attractive. [1] http://www.w3.org/mid/20100302214156005388.40b4e327@xn--mlform-iua.no [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H39.html -- leif halvard silli
Received on Wednesday, 3 March 2010 01:09:30 UTC