- From: Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com>
- Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:23:25 -0700
- To: Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com>
- Cc: HTML Accessibility Task Force <public-html-a11y@w3.org>, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net>, Paul Cotton <Paul.Cotton@microsoft.com>, HTML WG <public-html@w3.org>
(+public-html, since the request for update was sent there initially) Thanks. I believe this satisfies the request for updates. I'll update the issue status page. Regards, Maciej On Jul 7, 2010, at 7:49 AM, Laura Carlson wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > As you know the HTML WG Chairs asked that rationale be provided for > the aria-labelledby and aria-labelled and role="presentation" options > in the alt "Replace img Guidance for Conformance Checkers" Change > Proposal [1] for HTML Issue 31. > > I asked the accessibility task force for help to supply rationale [2]. > > To date I have received no response to my inquiry. > > Maciej asked [3] that I exclude the aria-labelledby and aria-labelled > and role="presentation" options, if I did not add rationale. > > I have done so in a new change proposal. This proposal allows <img> > only to be valid with <alt> or <figcaption>. This new offering is at: > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20100707 > > I did find some bullet points stating advantages for aria-labelledby > in Steve's "HTML5: Techniques for Providing Useful Text Alternatives" > [4]. So I created an additional new change proposal for <img> to be > valid only with <alt> or <figcaption> or aria-labelledby. It is at: > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20100706 > > Maciej, Sam, and Paul, please add these two new additional change > proposals to the change proposal table for Issue 31 [5]: > > 1. <img> valid only with <alt> or <figcaption> or aria-labelledby > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20100706 > > 2. <img> valid only with <alt> or <figcaption> > http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20100707 > > I also added Steve's bullet points to the original (accessibility task > force endorsed) change proposal. [1] > > If anyone can supply text which delineates rationale for and > role="presentation" or labelledby or further/better rationale for > aria-labelledby please, please speak up, I would be delighted to add > it to the original proposal and ImgElement20100706. > > Thank you. > > Best Regards, > Laura > > [1] http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126 > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jun/0213.html > [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jun/0588.html > [4] http://www.w3.org/TR/html-alt-techniques/ > [5] http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-031 > > Related References asking for task force help on Issue 31 change proposal: > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jan/0310.html > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Feb/0008.html > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Mar/0007.html > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Apr/0134.html > > On 6/24/10, Laura Carlson <laura.lee.carlson@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hello everyone, >> >> -public-html >> +public-html-a11y >> >> Maciej has asked [1] for added rationale in the alt change proposal >> for role="presentation", aria-labelledby & aria-labelled attributes. >> >> Or else he suggests excluding these three options from the proposal. >> >> He has said what we currently have is factual description of what >> these mechanisms are and what they do. But we have no reason for why >> the spec should be allowed to omit alt when one of these is present. >> >> So should I remove these options? Or does anyone have suggest text to >> add to the proposal to justify these options better? >> >> The current text in the change proposal states [2]: >> >> QUOTE >> >> Added Options which Address Accessibility >> >> The language of WCAG2 allows a text alternative to be expressed in >> other ways besides the alt attribute. Three cases in particular >> distinguish syntax for cases, which yield more accessible content. >> >> role="presentation" Attribute >> >> role="presentation" programmatically conveys to assistive technology >> that an image is presentational and not of interest. >> >> aria-labelledby and aria-labelled Attributes >> >> When the natural concise text alternative is available elsewhere on a >> page the aria-labelledby and aria-labelled attributes can be an >> accessible alternative for an image as it programmatically conveys >> meaning to assistive technology. For example: >> >> <h2 id="bronze">Bronze Medal</h2> >> <!-- Some page content --> >> <img src="bronzemedal.png" aria-labelledby="bronze"> >> >> UNQUOTE >> >> All guidance and suggestions greatly appreciated. Thank you. >> >> Best Regards, >> Laura >> >> [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Jun/0588.html >> [2] >> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126#Added_Options_which_Address_Accessibility >> >> >> On 6/23/10, Maciej Stachowiak <mjs@apple.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Jun 23, 2010, at 11:30 AM, Laura Carlson wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Sam, >>>> >>>> I think/hope that I have now addressed the concerns that you have >>>> raised. >>>> I: >>>> >>>> 1. Added rationale for all changes. >>>> 2. Removed the reference to the paragraph-section-heading loophole, as >>>> Ian indeed removed it from the spec per as requested in Bug 9217. >>>> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9217 >>>> I just hope it doesn't reappear in the spec. >>>> >>>> In addition, I updated all three of my current proposals for Issue 31. >>>> So far, all together I have three proposals and possibly a fourth. >>>> They are: >>>> >>>> 1. Replace img Guidance for Conformance Checkers. January 26, 2010. >>>> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126 >>>> In this one I tried to incorporate WAI CG's advice. >>>> http://www.w3.org/2009/06/Text-Alternatives-in-HTML5 >>> >>> >>> I still don't see any rationale given for the following three alt >>> exemptions >>> added by your change proposal: >>> >>> * aria-labelledby attribute present (non-empty only) >>> * aria-label attribute is present (non-empty only) >>> * role attribute is present and has a value of "presentation". >>> >>> The "Rationale" section has a factual description of what these >>> mechanisms >>> are and what they do, but as far as I can tell, no reason is given for >>> why >>> it should be allowed to omit alt when one of these is present. Please >>> either >>> add rationale for these changes or adjust the scope of the Change >>> Proposal >>> to exclude them. >>> >>> >>> There are also rationale sections relating to a "CAPTCHA Loophole" and a >>> "WebCam Loophole" which do not appear to relate to any actual changes >>> proposed in the Details section. That's not as critical a problem as >>> changes >>> without rationale, but it's something you may wish to address. >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Maciej >> >> On 6/23/10, Sam Ruby <rubys@intertwingly.net> wrote: >>> This change proposal needs to be updated both in order to provide a >>> rationale for each change requested, and to reflect differences from the >>> current draft of the document. >>> >>> As a concrete example, the proposal provides no rationale for removing >>> the paragraph-section-heading "loophole" save for a pointer to a bug >>> report, and the resolution of that bug report indicates that that >>> condition was removed. Looking at the current text, this condition is >>> indeed no longer present: >>> >>> http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/Overview.html#guidance-for-conformance-checkers >>> >>> Other specific examples: There is rationale given for allowing >>> role="presentation", aria-label or aria-labeledby as exemptions for alt. >>> >>> - Sam Ruby >>> >>> On 02/11/2010 03:03 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: >>>> (+public-html) >>>> >>>> Hi Laura, >>>> >>>> I've recorded this as an additional Change Proposal for ISSUE-31: >>>> http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-031 >>>> >>>> (I've suggested previously that you and Ian should work together to >>>> identify any changes here that are uncontroversial, so they can be >>>> directly applied to the HTML5 draft; I hope the two of you find some >>>> time to make progress on that.) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Maciej >>>> >>>> On Jan 28, 2010, at 2:18 AM, Laura Carlson wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello Everyone, >>>>> >>>>> I have drafted a Change Proposal for HTML ISSUE-31. >>>>> >>>>> Summary: >>>>> The current guidance for conformance checkers for Section 4.8.2.1 the >>>>> img element is unclear and does not implement WAI CG's advice on the >>>>> validation of short text alternatives. This change proposal replaces >>>>> the current guidance with clear guidance that lists all required short >>>>> text alternative options that exist to be considered valid. It enables >>>>> automatic validators to programmatically detect the presence or >>>>> absence of text alternatives. >>>>> >>>>> Full proposal is at: >>>>> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ChangeProposals/ImgElement20090126 >>>>> >>>>> Ideas for improvement are most welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Laura > > -- > Laura L. Carlson >
Received on Thursday, 8 July 2010 09:24:00 UTC