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MINUTES: HTML-A11Y 11 February 2009 at 16:00Z

From: Jon Gunderson <jongund@illinois.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2010 11:06:54 -0600 (CST)
To: "HTML Accessibility Task Force" <public-html-a11y@w3.org>
Message-Id: <20100211110654.CCB63226@expms1.cites.uiuc.edu>
Minutes can be found at:

HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
11 Feb 2010

See also: IRC log

    John, Jon


    * Topics
         1. Action Items
         2. Actions Review
         3. Sub Team reports
         4. reports from TF Subgroups (Canvas; Video; ...)
         5. FTF Meeting
         6. Summary attribute
         7. Bug 8649: "Resize IFrame" reported by Gez Lemon.
         8. Bug 8680: "Meaningful label in menu example" reported by Gez Lemon.
         9. Bug 8681: "Separator menu items" reported by Gez Lemon.
    * Summary of Action Items

<trackbot> Date: 11 February 2010

<janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

<janina> agenda: this

<MichaelC> scribe: John
Action Items

<MikeSmith> Zazim, call Mike

MC: Only one open action item person is not here yet

<MichaelC> scribe: Jon
Actions Review
Sub Team reports
reports from TF Subgroups (Canvas; Video; ...)

JS: RS is not here, but they seem on track

DS: There are proposals on captioning and how to use descriptions, it seems to be working well 
using standard HTML
... Those guys are working on what accessibility is, sign language and audio descriptions
... Proposals being made on media queries

RS: I am working on an adapation of media query for canvas, can we merge

DS: Yes, I send you something tomorrow

RS: If we can't make canvas directly accessible, we want to deliver alternative content

JS: I think it is your background noise

<MichaelC> scribeNick: jongunderson

RS: HTML5 has media query support using CSS, so content can be conditionally rendered, I am 
using access for all meta data

<JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI

RS: I need to have an alternative to this media, when it is encountered in your markup it selectively 
renders your markup
... In HTML5 says that an element supports media queries
... through access for all there are also options for simplified content

JS: We need to make one request to CSS about the use of media queries

JF: Can you join the media conference call later today

RS: Yes

JF: I will send you some information, and we should have 7-8 people there

JS: JF can you send the information to the list
... I will like to call in too

<JF> external texts: Media TextAssociations - 

<JF> Related Bugs :

<JF> Bug 5758 Insufficient accessibility fallback for <audio> or <video>

<JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758

<JF> embeddded texts: Media MultitrackAPI -

<JF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Media_MultitrackAPI

<JF> Related Bugs

<JF> Bug 8659: Media events to indicate captions and audio descriptions

<JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=8659

<JF> Bug 5758: Insufficient accessibility fallback for <audio> or <video>

<JF> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=5758

JF: There are two entries in the wiki, there is a new javascript api to extract the stuff

JS: The meeting today?

JF: Let me check that

JS: I thought it was monday boston time

JF: There was some confusion about the time

JS: Please try to do before the end of the call
... RS anything more about canvas?

RS: We have a call today, we need to get agreement on how to make canvas directly accessible, 
without having a child nodes (DOM)

<JF> Correction: Media conference call is next week: 

RS: The other thing is media queries, it will need more work and it needs to sync up to video and 
... I will try to sync with DS work

<dsinger_> Magic. I had not worked on the axes, just the framework

RS: People can use the setting to select content in the resources, it all based on style sheets
... We will still be doing direct accessibility for canvas, there is push back on a shadow DOM in the 
canvas element, we need to drive a magnifier, these canvas APIs are outside the HTML5 spec
... Within canvas you define an accessibility tree, but we need to support fall back content when 
canvas is supported, we will be using javascript to check for canvas support
... It becomes your new accessibility tree that is transparent, when you land in the key

Cynthia: Basically a shadow DOM
... We need to generate an error if people don't do it

<JF> +1 to that Cyns

RS: We could do it with a media query, I am not sure how
... I get push back on stuff being to hard

JS: We need to move on

RS: The call is at 2:00 EST today

Cynthia: Yes I should be there

RS: Please bring up the validation issue

Cynthia: Thanks

SF: I don't support the media hack or best practice, due to the problem testing

JS: Lets make sure that is in the other call, glad to see things moving in the media area
... Cynthia something about IE team

Cynthia: Not done yet
FTF Meeting

JS: We have a host and a place, april 6th and 7th in Brimingham england
... MC do we have a count?

<dsinger_> Ftf regrets from DS. Eric will attend for Apple but will JF chair media?

JS: Host is National Royal Institute of the Blind

<JF> unable to go to UK - regrets

MC: The survey says 5 people checked that week as a possibility and 11 said they could meet in 

JS: How many people can meet on the call today

MC: Nobody was objecting, but it is right next to Easter weekend and it interferes with vacation 

Cynthia: I looked at Microsoft hosting at Washington or London, we could do later

RS: I can't do the 17th, but I can do 6th and 7th

MC: We don't have a host for the 10th and the 6th and 7th are close to holiday

JS: The FTF would be on business days
... the next opportunity would not be until late april, earlier makes more sense than later
... It looks like 6th and 7th works, though it is not ideal

Cynthia: Should I stop looking at hosting?

JS: If we decide for burmingham yes your should stop
... Any one oject to burmingham?
... No objections so we will go with 6th and 7th

<dsinger_> Cool. But we do need to find a sub to chair media sessions

JS: Cynthia you can stop looking

Cynthia: I have budgeting right now, but I don't know about in the future

<dsinger_> S/burmingham/Birmingham/
Summary attribute

JS: Discovery of details and contextual context with annotation
... Cynthia can you add some more

Cynthia: Wendy, Josh and Michael started working on the semantics of tables and looking to replace 
summary with something else like the detail element
... Alot of people may have issues with it, but i cam ok with it
... My concern is how the accessibility community will react
... They did more work with rowspan and colspan and make that available to accessibility APIs
... The current mapping are all over the board, we would like this more organized
... I am interested in what people think

JF: Is summary dropped?

Cynthia: Summary would be retained, but details would be the primary means
... This might be ok with people who don't like invisible stuff and this is what details is suppose to 
... The HTML group will probably be ok, the accessibilty community may not like it

JF: It sounds fine, people will be fine it if summary still works

Cynthia: The difference with this is that this is better than what is in the spec

JF: There maybe issues with the Qubec people

Cynthia: Using summary would generate a validation warning

<dsinger_> The Quebec spec should be version-specific. In html4do x ..

JS: My concern is moving only to an automatically test, we still need human check

<dsinger_> A new version of HTML should provoke new thought

Cynthia: Now people would check the DETAILS element, rather than summary attribute

JS: I could live with that

Cynthia: This is better than what is in the spec

SF: Where is details

Cynthia: Details is a child of table, details does have a summary that we would want to change
... The specs says it would say details, but it could be a hidden attribute, that could be conditionally 

<richardschwerdtfe> dropping off

Cynthia: there are several name changes that will need to be made here, especially summary, and 
something with the functionality of hidden

JS: Any other questions?

Cynthia: Thats less push back, JF can you live with that?

JF: Yeah

JS: You were going to give us a time line for the change proposal

Cynthia: Tuesday morning next week

JS: Very excellent!
... Last call for questions or comments
... We expect to look at this week then

Cynthia: Thanks to wendy and josh

JS: We have paid some attention to accepted and rejected bugs


JS: Lets spend the remaining time on resolved and open bugs
Bug 8649: "Resize IFrame" reported by Gez Lemon.

JS: HTML does not prevent you form resizing anything, any comments?

MC: Mark as not changing the resolution
... We are basically accepting the resolution
Bug 8680: "Meaningful label in menu example" reported by Gez Lemon.

JS: The label attribute is the only one that renders, the others are used in legacy UA

JC: Accept resolution
Bug 8681: "Separator menu items" reported by Gez Lemon.

JS: There is no spec change requested, does anyone think we need a proposal?
... I am not sure how did the initial pass

Cynthia: Let me take a look at

JS: I am leary about this bug since we don't have a spec change request at this time

Cynthia: This should be a more info

MC: We need to decide whether to reopen the bug

Cynthia: We need to get more infor before we calose

MC: They will just get closed again if the information is not there

Cynthia: Can we use tracker?

Paul: Just respond on the bug and say it is under consideration

MC: SHould I add the task force marker
... Add the taks force key word that we intend to provide more information

Cynthia: ANything with out a spec change should move to a more info

JS: We want a smooth process between our sub group and the parent group

Cynthia: If someone doesn't propose a fix, it it doesn't mean there isn't a problem

JS: We need a way to cover all the possible accessibility issues that we find

Paul: It is not unusually for people to give suggestions on fixes

JS: How should we move forward

Paul: I would look ahead to see if there are other bugs like this, and maybe do a prememtive strike
... use this one as an example, we prefer that you move things to the more info state, rather than 

JS: I'll tak that as a good suggestion

MC: These are marked as accessibility bugs, but not task force bugs, I did't think i had authority to 
do this

<Stevef> me/ MikeSmith: hey MikeSmith I am getting close to wanting the alt text doc to be up on 
the w3c, but i need help to do that, initially at least, can we have a chat about it soemtime soon?

MC: Some of these we may not want to take them all on

JS: Anything labelled labelled as a11y will be looked at by this group

MC: In theory we have already done that on most of them

<JF> +1 to JS

JS: Unless thare are objections we can move forward with that

MC: I will mark 8681 as a tak force bug

JS: Thank you everyone for your assistance and participation
... Media call?

JF: I posted it to IRC

JS: Please sned to the list
Summary of Action Items
Jon Gunderson, Ph.D.
Coordinator Information Technology Accessibility
Disability Resources and Educational Services

Rehabilitation Education Center
Room 86
1207 S. Oak Street
Champaign, Illinois 61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870

WWW: http://www.cita.illinois.edu/
WWW: https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/jongund/www/

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Received on Thursday, 11 February 2010 17:07:22 UTC

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