minutes: HTML Accessibility Task Force Telecon 2010-12-16 [draft]

aloha!

thanks to leonie watson for minuting today's very busy meeting

minutes from the 2010-12-16 HTML A11y TF telecon can be accessed as
hypertext from:

http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html

as an IRC log at:

http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-irc

and as plain text following this announcement -- as usual, please 
report any errors, clarifications, mis-attributions and the like 
by replying-to this announcement on-list...

note that the following ACTION ITEMS were assigned during the 
2010-12-16 teleconference:

  * ACTION-93: rosmaita find someone to work on change proposal 
    for drag and drop - due 5 Jan 2011
  * http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01
  * http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/93

  * ACTION-94: foliot to draft change proposal for html-issue-142
    video (poster alt) - due 13 Jan 2011 
  * http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02
  * http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/94

  * ACTION-95: John Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due
    Jan. 6 
  * http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action04
  * http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/95

  * ACTION-96: Media Sub Team to revisit bug 11395  (Use media 
    queries to select appropriate <track> elements) assign to 
    John Foliot Due Jan 6 
  * http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action03
  * http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/96

please also note that HTML A11y TF meetings will resume on 6 January 
2010 at the regular time and day...

please also note the upcoming "deadlines" as set forth in the HTML WG
Chair's "Timeline" 
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html

* February 23, 2011 - every issue has at least one Change Proposal
     * Consequences of missing this date: issues will be closed
       without prejudice and marked POSTPONED; can be reconsidered 
       during LC or for a later version of HTML.

* March 22, 2011 - all calls for counter-proposals complete
     * Consequences of missing this date: if any issue has only one
       proposal, we call for consensus on that proposal."

    _________________________________________________________

                             - DRAFT -

            HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

16 Dec 2010

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Dec/0176.html

  See also: IRC log - http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-irc

Attendees

  Present
         Cynthia_Shelly, Eric_Carlson, Gregory_Rosmaita, John_Foliot,
         Léonie_Watson, Michael_Cooper, Steve_Faulkner, Martin_Kliehm,
         Janina_Sajka

  Regrets
         Kenny_Johar, Joshue_O'Connor, Silvia_Pfieffer, Laura_Carlson,
         Denis_Boudreau, Marco_Ranon, Aurélien_Levy,
         Richard_Schwerdtfeger

  Chair
         Janina_Sajka

  Scribe
         Leonie_Watson

Contents

    * Topics
        1. Identify Scribe
        2. Actions Review
           http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
        3. Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug
           Triage
        4. Scheduling a Face to Face in 2011
        5. Lady of Shallott (ISSUE-122)
        6. @title is NOT a substitute for @alt ChangeProposal
        7. Keyboard Access Update
          
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0105.html
        8. Forms Accessibility
        9. Next Meeting / Issues to Track
    * Summary of Action Items
    _________________________________________________________

  <trackbot> Date: 16 December 2010

  <JF> greg, yes

  <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y telecon

  <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka

  <janina> agenda: this

  <scribe> scribenick: oedipus

  s/scribenick: oeidpus//

  <Leonie_Watson> scribe: Leonie_Watson

Identify Scribe
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List

Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open

  action-85

  <oedipus> action-85?

  <trackbot> ACTION-85 -- Janina Sajka to find someone to create a
  change proposal for ISSUE-80
  http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/80 -- due 2010-12-09 --
  OPEN

  <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/85

  <oedipus> GJR: has volunteered to help leonie should she need it

  action-86?

  <trackbot> ACTION-86 -- Everett Zufelt to create change proposal for
  ISSUE-133 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133 -- due
  2010-11-22 -- OPEN

  <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/86

  <kliehm> ISSUE-133 has been closed on 14 December

  <kliehm> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/133

  action-87?

  <trackbot> ACTION-87 -- Everett Zufelt to create change proposal for
  ISSUE-134 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/134 -- due
  2011-01-05 -- OPEN

  <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/87

  action-90?

  <trackbot> ACTION-90 -- Michael Cooper to do gap analysis between
  embedded content use cases and existing support -- due 2010-12-09 --
  OPEN

  <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/90

  JS: One other item not captured in actions - Everett to give us new
  language for drag and drop

  SF: Drop zone attrib was added in response to the issue.

  <oedipus> note that Gez worked on this issue, too -- don't know his
  schedule, but might pick up the action?

  CS: Is there anyone who understands Everett's position?

  SF: Suggest Gez.

  GJR: We had an approach some while ago, based on Gez's thoughts.
  ... I can start a conversation with Gez and Everett to try and
  understand the situation.

  <MichaelC> ACTION: rosmaita find someone to work on change proposal
  for drag and drop - due 5 Jan 2011 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-93 - find someone to work on change
  proposal for drag and drop [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2011-01-05].

  <oedipus> issue-142?

  <trackbot> ISSUE-142 does not exist

  JF: Another action? On the video and poster issues - issue 142.

  JS: How should we move on this?

  JF: I'm putting together a change proposal, it's a complex topic and
  both perspectives have merit.

  <MichaelC> ACTION: foliot to draft change proposal for
  html-issue-142 video (poster alt) - due 13 Jan 2011 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-94 - draft change proposal for
  html-issue-142 video (poster alt) [on John Foliot - due 2011-01-13].

Subteam Reports: Canvas; ARIA Mappings; Media; Bug Triage

  <oedipus>
  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/TextFormat_Comparison_Overview

  JS: Media, is there a time frame in the HTML WG around elevating a
  bug to an issue?

  <oedipus> Canvas Minutes:
  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Canvas/Minutes

  CS: It's the 2nd January.

Scheduling a Face to Face in 2011

  JS: Would like us to start thinking about a F2F in the first six
  months of next year.

  <oedipus> GJR will not be at CSUN

  <oedipus> SF, CS, JS will be at CSUN

  JS: Talking with MS and MC, is CSUN a good place/time to meet?

  <kliehm> http://lanyrd.com/2011/csun/

  <JF> ACTION: Media Sub Team to revisit bug 11395 assign to John
  Foliot Due Jan 6 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action03]

  <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Media

  <JF> ACTION: John Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due
  Jan. 6 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action04]

  <trackbot> Created ACTION-95 - Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit
  bug 1195 due Jan. 6 [on John Foliot - due 2010-12-23].

  <oedipus> CS: MS already have a room reservation

  <oedipus> a lot of people going to SXSW and CSUN

  JF: Will need to get back to work the week after.

  CS: Could we look at holding the meeting during CSUN?

  JS: It's unreasonable for us to assume that three months from now
  we'll have everything finished & we need to get our ducks in a row.

  <oedipus> the whole forms section needs to be reviewed and discussed

  CS: Is March/CSUN too late?

  JF: Could we do it on the Sunday perhaps?

  JS: It's not ideal, but we've done it in the past.

  <oedipus> timeline to last call (MJS)
  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2010Sep/0074.html

  <oedipus> "Mar 22, 2011 - all calls for counter-proposals complete
  Consequences of missing this date: if any issue has only one
  proposal, we call for consensus on that proposal."

  <oedipus> " Feb 23, 2011 - every issue has at least one Change
  Proposal = Consequences of missing this date: issues will be closed
  without prejudice and marked POSTPONED; can be reconsidered during
  LC or for a later version of HTML.

  JF: Last day of SxSW is first day of CSUN.

  JS: We'll think about doing someting around CSUN, but we're aware of
  complications/overlaps with other events around that time. Let's
  look at the Monday after CSUN.

  CS: Instead of two full days before/after, could we do several
  smaller chunks during the conference itself?

  GJR: The real deadline is 23rd Feb, that's the date by which each
  issue must have a change proposal.

  CS: Perhaps we should look at a date in early Feb?

  <Zakim> oedipus, you wanted to say real "deadline" is 23 february
  2011

  MC: 8 week notice is best practice, think we're allowed to have less
  notice if the whole WG doesn't object, but it's generally a bad
  idea.

  <oedipus> GJR: what about virtual face 2 face meetings -- 2 or 3 or
  4 hour chunks

  JF: If we had a full list of issues we wanted to discuss at a F2F,
  we could bring it to the chairs and explain we'll be meeting in
  March to discuss in detail.

  JS: We need to look at our collective availability in/around CSUN,
  and also for the week of 13th Feb.

  <oedipus> plus 1 to week of 13th

  +1 to week/c 13th

  <oedipus> Note: January 22, 2010 is the cutoff for escalating bugs
  for pre-LC consideration - all issues in tracker, calls for proposal
  issued by this date = Consequences of missing this date: any further
  escalations will be treated as a Last Call comment.

  <JF> If we go in Feb., I can research a room at Stanford if required
  - offer is there

TOPIC: Lady of Shallott (ISSUE-122)

  <oedipus> my issue-122 ACTION:
  http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/purely_decorative_images

  GJR: My thoughts on issue 122 are ready to forward I think.
  ... We had general agreement on the wording during TPAC, and I've
  tried to explain this perspective to Laura as well.

@title is NOT a substitute for @alt ChangeProposal

  <inserted> scribenick: oedipus

  LW: previous TF work on @title?
  ... change proposal is to forbid @title as substitute for @alt --
  title is for additional meta-info about the element

  VERBOSE DESCRIPTOR REQUIREMENTS -- full document at
  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs

  1. A programmatic mechanism to reference a specific set of
  structured content, internal or external to the document containing
  the described image.

  2. A way to inform users and authors that a description is
  present/available.

  3. A device independent way to access the descriptive content.

  4. An explicit provision that accessing descriptive content, whether
  internal or external to the document containing the image, does NOT
  take the user away from the user's position in the document
  containing the image where the verbose descriptor was invoked;

  5. A way to provide user control over exposition of the descriptor
  so that rendering of the image and its description is not an
  either/or proposition. (A visual indicator of the description should
  NOT be a forced visual encumbrance on sighted users by default).

  6. A method to reference a longer description of an image, without
  including the content in the main flow of a page.

  logged as HTML WG Bug 10853: HTML5 Lacks A Verbose Descriptor
  Mechanism http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=10853

  GJR: I think that's already been done, Laura added to the info page.

  GJR: have use cases, etc at:
  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs

  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Use_Cases

  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Requirements

  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Related_Resources

  <Stevef> Leonie_Watson what's the issue you are writing a change
  proposal for?

  <inserted> scribe: Leonie_Watson

  JS: 3rd item is that we look at use today

  JS: In January let's look to putting together a reconsideration
  response.
  ... 4th, a discussion of backwards/forwards support.

  <oedipus> GJR: needs to add implementation notes (with big thanks to
  JF!)

  <oedipus>
 
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Verbose_desc_reqs#Satisfying_These_Requirements_for_HTML5

  JS: Value of ARIA is that it applies in a host neutral manner

  <JF> no objection here

  GJR: Janina's points covered everything.

Keyboard Access Update
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2010Jul/0105.html

  JS: Where do we stand on this?

  <MichaelC> action-95 due 6 Jan 2011

  <trackbot> ACTION-95 Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due
  Jan. 6 due date now 6 Jan 2011

  GJR: Still in progress, need to catch up with the triage team.
  ... If anyone has time, please review the forms section.
  ... Parts of the spec concern me.

  SF: Which bits in particular?

  GJR: To make sure that the accessibility isn't lost, went from web
  forms as a separate doc to part of the whole, and there are things I
  need to untangle in my own mind.

  SF: Can read through in early January, in time for 13th.

Forms Accessibility

  <JF> propose we have a longer call on the 13th. Could we start an
  hour earlier that day?

  JF: Let's take this to the list.

  JS: Good suggestion, let's do it.

  <inserted> scribenick: oedipus

  <inserted> scribenick: oedipus

  GJR: Steve would you take the lead on forms since you've done the
  most extensive research in the area?

  SF: yes

  JS: can we speak about forms as main content of 6 january 2011
  meeting?

  SF: holiday -- won't be available

  GJR: Steve, could you post your thoughts on forms in HTML5 to the
  list around the beginning of new year?

  SF: yes

Next Meeting / Issues to Track

  resume meetings 6 January 2011 same time, IRC channel, and passcode

  [ADJOURNED]

Summary of Action Items

  [NEW] ACTION: foliot to draft change proposal for html-issue-142
  video (poster alt) - due 13 Jan 2011 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action02]

  [NEW] ACTION: John Foliot - Media Sub Team to revisit bug 1195 due
  Jan. 6 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action04]

  [NEW] ACTION: Media Sub Team to revisit bug 11395 assign to John
  Foliot Due Jan 6 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action03]

  [NEW] ACTION: rosmaita find someone to work on change proposal for
  drag and drop - due 5 Jan 2011 [recorded in
  http://www.w3.org/2010/12/16-html-a11y-minutes.html#action01]

  [End of minutes]
    _________________________________________________________