- From: Dael Jackson <daelcss@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 08:03:55 -0400
- To: www-style@w3.org
- Cc: public-houdini@w3.org
========================================= These are the official CSSWG minutes. Unless you're correcting the minutes, Please respond by starting a new thread with an appropriate subject line. ========================================= CSS Pseudo Elements ------------------- - RESOLVED: Spaces separating punctuation from first letter don't interrupt ::first-letter (Issue #5154: ::first-letter should include space separators) CSS Inline 3 ------------ - RESOLVED: Accept the addition of the terms with the current proposed definitions. (Issue #5312: Define em-top and em-bottom baselines) - RESOLVED: When 'over-sunk', an initial-letter is aligned with the top metrics instead. (Issue #5329: Initial-letter alignment when 'over-sunk') Houdini: CSS Layout API ----------------------- - There was general interest in further pursuing a string based inline layout API (Houdini Issue #990) so discussions will continue outside the call. There were also some concerns about accessibility and internationalization/character mapping that will need to be addressed for this to be successful. - RESOLVED: Any Houdini JS that needs to run for style / layout calc needs to run for print (Houdini Issue #978: Print Behavior and Test Requirements) ===== FULL MINUTES BELOW ====== Agenda: https://wiki.csswg.org/planning/virtual-summer-2020#friday Present: Rossen Atanassov, Microsoft Tab Atkins, Google Amelia Bellamy-Royds, Invited Expert Christian Biesinger, Google Mike Bremford, BFO Oriol Brufau, Igalia Tantek Çelik, Mozilla Emilio Cobos Álvarez, Mozilla Elika Etemad, Invited Expert Simon Fraser, Apple Megan Gardner, Apple Daniel Holbert, Mozilla Koji Ishii, Google Brian Kardell, JS Foundation Jonathan Kew Chris Lilley, W3C Peter Linss, Invited Expert Alison Maher, Microsoft Tess O'Connor, Apple François Remy, Invited Expert Florian Rivoal, Invited Expert Cassondra Roberts, IBM Devin Rousso, Apple Jen Simmons, Apple Alan Stearns, Adobe Lea Verou, Invited Expert Scribe: TabAtkins Scribe's Scribe: fantasai CSS Pseudo Elements =================== ::first-letter should include space separators ---------------------------------------------- github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5154 astearns: We got the examples tantek was asking for astearns: For Norwegian and the other language [French, I think], it makes sense to add those space separators, since they're in the markup astearns: A little afraid of turning it on for other languages, because if you have an open-quote and capital letter, and all you want is the quote itself, maybe people are adding spaces to create the separation currently? florian: I think dauwhe said they were inserting spaces to adjust visual separation for English content, so they would want the space included. tantek: I tried to do a little more research as well. tantek: Didn't have time to upload [shows Elements of Typographic Style] tantek: On p64, there's some first-letter effects with leading punctuation, including with guillarmes tantek: So the point I'm making here is that it's not the entire thing is the first letter, it's that the punctuation is skipped over, only the letter is embiggened, then the punctuation is situated next to it. tantek: So I'm concerned we might be doing the wrong thing. astearns: There's a separate issue addressing that layout, and the current suggestion to get that addressed requires the punctuation to be part of the ::first-letter tantek: Ok [shows an example in English too]. Maybe we should consider these issues together. <fantasai> It's issue 2040 astearns: I'll drop it in the minutes. <astearns> there is also https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/4988 for changing size of components of initial-letter fantasai: So this is about whether we include the space *when* there is a quotation mark, not about the quotation mark itself. fantasai: If we want French and English to be the same, we need to include it. fantasai: As astearns said, 2040 is about the formatting question if you want the punctuation and letter different. fantasai: Richard said we didn't need to include U+0020 space, because the spaces used here are typically other spaces, not the standard word separator. fantasai: So if we're really concerned, we can exclude U+0020 and only include the other spaces. fantasai: And note that the punctuation by itself won't be picked up as a ::first-letter anyway; you need a letter. AmeliaBR: I'm not sure about ignoring U+0020, lots of people will type this with a standard space AmeliaBR: But probably the more exotic spaces can be ignored. <fantasai> Anyone who's fussy about typography will use the correct space, I think :) AmeliaBR: The one common thing from tantek's examples, and some in the issue, where the initial punctuation is different than the letter, they all have the letter as big. So to do that, we at least need the characters up to the letter to be included. AmeliaBR: If we don't come up with a special solution for people who want the punctuation to be offset or smaller, there's always the option of people including spans to mark off certain characters. <tantek> if I paste this here does it work? https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/2040 florian: Good guides about typography will say to use various spaces, but most people don't know how to type those. florian: At least in French, it's pretty common to say ordinary spaces, probably same in Norwegian. So I'd include standard space. <astearns> I think we should allow the regular space, even though I'm fussy about typography tantek: My concern is that if we just flip this on, we'll cause pages that have not been tested with this to suddenly have first-letters that didn't before. tantek: And end up with big punctuation as well as big letters. tantek: That might come as a surprise to authors who are used to not doing that automatically. tantek: And I'm not sure it's the right default. tantek: So if it is punctuation-space-letter, maybe the letter itself should be the only thing included as the ::first-letter, and the punctuation gets normal inline styling. tantek: That would look closer to the typography examples. tantek: I'm concerned we have yet another place where we do the wrong thing typographically by default. tantek: The web has a tradition of this, like the way large text messes up the line rhythm. tantek: So I'm concerned if we add one more papercut. tantek: 5154 shows what browsers are currently doing tantek: There's an example with the leading quote... [missed] <chris> so now we need a term for "the characters before the first actual letter"? <fantasai> chris, we need a pseudo-element, yes :) <chris> ::first-letter-before <astearns> in the examples provided for this issue, the punctuation *does* take the same styling as the letter: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5154#issuecomment-659129316 fantasai: I think tantek is getting caught up in the not-perfect fantasai: I think you're forgetting that English and French punctuation have the same problem and have to be treated the same way fantasai: We need to include the space to keep these on-par, and having them be inconsistent is bad and doesn't solve those problems anyway florian: Having ::first-letter select the letter and not the preceding punctuation seems bad, it's already complicated, sounds scary. florian: As to compat, Safari does it already. So there's some amount of content out there probably already depending on it. <florian> http://www.typografi.org/dropcaps/assets/sitatstrek-anf%C3%B8rselstegn_714.jpg florian: So in this example we actually do want the included thing to be large. florian: In other cases we won't want the punctuation large, but those apply equally to the existing punctuation-letter without space. TabAtkins: Florian touched on it at the end, one of the big concerns Tantek brought up TabAtkins: is wanting to address differently-sized punctuation wrt first-letter TabAtkins: But that's already the case. If there's no space, we already have that problem, already have to solve it. TabAtkins: It's not relevant to this issue. Rossen: So I think there were several reasons for having this, including some existing shipping impls Rossen: So it's probably not a compat risk, or at least not a big one. <AmeliaBR> Slight tangent, but while testing I discovered that browsers treat quotes in the markup different from quotes inserted via `::before { content: open-quote }`. Is that expected, or just part of all the bugs? tantek: I don't actually see the Safari example as proof of no compat problem tantek: Safari applies all the punctuation as well. tantek: It wouldn't surprise me if there's special-casing going on here, looks like impl by accident. tantek: Looking at an example with a massive preceding dash. tantek: It wouldn't surprise me if people are already not giving that styling to Safari to avoid that problem. astearns: Also in Chrome tantek: Ok. So that's a bug, and I don't think we should be designing based on a bug. florian: We're not saying it's a bug, we're saying it's desirable. <fantasai> If the compat problem isn't a concern can we just fix this and move on? tantek: I'm talking just about the hyphen. tantek: Because of that I think authors might be picking different techniques. So maybe we don't have a compat problem at all then, because nobody's using it. florian: If there is a real compat problem we'll find out and revisit faceless2: The big hyphen was actually a desired effect <faceless2> http://www.typografi.org/dropcaps/assets/sitatstrek-anførselstegn_714.jpg tantek: I'm convinced by the examples, we should do this, but we should make it dependent on solving 2040 tantek: That would be my compromise proposal tantek: I think this group can solve that. fantasai: We need to do one thing at a time. These are two separate features that happen to work together. fantasai: So let's just get opening quotes working the same between languages. tantek: They're both ::first-letter [back and forth] <astearns> +1 to resolving on this now TabAtkins: Today, a single quote and no space, will be combined together. TabAtkins: and the quote won't be sized "correctly" in that case either. Rossen: Okay, so it sounds like people are all okay with the proposal as it exists. Tantek, you had an objection based on no examples; we now have those. Do you still object? tantek: I strongly prefer that we make this resolution dependent on 2040, but I won't object. Rossen: So any objections? RESOLVED: Spaces separating punctuation from first letter don't stop ::first-letter CSS Inline 3 ============ Define em-top and em-bottom baselines ------------------------------------- github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5312 fantasai: The canvas API has a handful of metrics that it allows getters for fantasai: They decided to defer to CSS Inline for their definitions <fantasai> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-inline-3/#baseline-types fantasai: We have a section in css-inline which defines a bunch of these metrics, noting their opentype equivalents fantasai: They're taking a dependency on ascent and descent metrics for the purpose of font bounding box fantasai: There's another metric in this canvas spec that we don't have a definition for in the CSS spec <fantasai> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/canvas.html#dom-textmetrics-fontboundingboxascent fantasai: So I propose we include that definition <fantasai> fontBoundingBoxAscent/Descent fantasai: Those map to our ascent/descent <fantasai> emHeightAscent/Descent fantasai: Then there's the em height ascent/descent, which doesn't <fantasai> "highest top of the em squares in the inline box" fantasai: Which don't have a definition in HTML; the definition is "to the highest top of the em squares in the inline box", and I'm not sure what that really means fantasai: So the proposal is we define that metric, so the canvas api spec can hook into it fantasai: Even if we don't end up using the metric in our own spec <AmeliaBR> +1 for keeping all definitions in one place fantasai: I talked to jfkthame about what he thinks the metric should be fantasai: Idea is [in the issue] <fantasai> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5312#issue-654391546 <fantasai> Proposed definition from me and @jfkthame is: <fantasai> if the ideographic-top + ideographic-bottom or ideographic-central baselines are defined by the font, emHeightAscent is 0.5em above the ideographic-central and emHeightDescent is 0.5em below. (This will normally make ideographic-top = emHeightAscent and ideographic-bottom = emHeightDescent, but if ideographic-top and ideographic-bottom are not 1em apart it will normalize the distance to 1em) <fantasai> if none of the ideographic baselines are defined, use the ascent and descent normalized proportionally so they add up to 1em florian: So don't use the actual size, but use the proportions? faceless2: Lots of fonts don't have these metrics add up to 1, so normalizing is important AmeliaBR: So looks like midpoint of ascent/descent, then .5em both ways. AmeliaBR: So it might be larger or smaller than ascent/descent if they weren't 1em apart originally? fantasai: Yes. And bias toward the ideographic lines if they exist, they're more likely to be 1em apart fantasai: They're also more likely to be in the center of where the ink falls, because they're centrally painted fantasai: It works out well for CJK, and it works out fine for other writing system so long as these metrics are halfway reasonably defined. Rossen: Koji, any opinion on this? koji: I generally support defining this. koji: Been discussing with our canvas team about it koji: They're not really well-defined koji: How to do it, I think we need more investigation/discussion. koji: I'm asking in the issue some questions, and not sure what the correct way to define it is yet. koji: So no concrete proposal yet, but think we need more investigation to make this move. Rossen: If the current approach is something we can resolve for now, and then refine as we go if we identify it's not the precise math we need... Rossen: I think there's alignment behind exposing these metrics and roughly defining them as suggested Rossen: Possibly with tweaks as we adjust Rossen: Are you against that? koji: Not all my questions are answered yet. Like, font top metric is visual, but we probably need to support vertical flow. Rossen: I think elika just answered that in the issue about 30s ago. AmeliaBR: What is the actual use-case for these metrics? Are we expecting people to use them to draw boxes around their text? AmeliaBR: Knowing that might inform what a useful definition is. fantasai: I think they'll be used to position the text. Rossen: There are more and more solutions taking a dependency on canvas today for word-like or excel-like apps Rossen: So more and more need doing higher-fidelity typography thru canvas iank: The exact use-cases are basically "everything you can imagine someone wanting to do when laying out text". It's pretty broad. AmeliaBR: Right, the question is what this adds to the existing terms, and is this proposed definition solving what's needed? AmeliaBR: I don't know, because I don't know what the people who added this metric were thinking about. fantasai: Well the current ascent/descent metrics aren't interoperable, so one thing this adds is a consistent answer for something ascent/descent-like. fantasai: The font metrics used for these differ depending on browser/OS currently. fantasai: So at least in cases where we have ideographic metrics, we can get a consistent cross-platform answer here. koji: This wouldn't be interoperable, right? It relies on ascent/ descent. fantasai: Yeah, not always. It's just closer to interop. koji: Is Gecko okay to change to match this? jfkthame: I think we'd be fine with this, it's fairly close to what Gecko already does. jfkthame: I think most of the use-cases are better served by canvas's ascent/descent metrics, but those don't necessarily add up to 1em, and there's a legacy expectation that canvas text baseline has a top/bottom values which are specified to be the top and bottom of the em square. jfkthame: I think there's a legit expectation for those to be 1em apart. jfkthame: But it's not clear where the text falls in the em square if ascent+descent doesn't equal 1em. jfkthame: So that's where this normalization comes in, giving a sensible definition to where the em square is Rossen: Do we know what current word formatters do in this case? koji: There's one definition in opentype saying the ideographic em box with almost the same algo proposed here koji: Except opentype says it only exists for cjk fonts, and it's undefined otherwise Rossen: Is it a problem to define it for non-cjk? koji: We tried to do some work there. When we used platform ascent/ descent, it was quite bad koji: We then used sTypo ascent/descent, we use that for underline position. koji: we probably need more heuristic investigations koji: In canvas we don't have font cascading, right? AmeliaBR: Canvas does do font fallback like CSS does. Rossen: So looking for progress. fantasai: I'm happy to put a note in saying that these metrics are for canvas, and not meant for CSS. fantasai: I think we should add the terms and definitions, and note we don't plan to use them in CSS. RESOLVED: Accept the addition of the terms with the current proposed definitions. <br dur=15m> Initial-letter alignment when 'over-sunk' ----------------------------------------- github: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/5329 faceless2: When you have an initial-letter smaller than the space given, how do you align it within that gap? faceless2: Existing spec aligns it to the bottom, fantasai proposes we change it to the top fantasai: It fixes a use-case I had for indic scripts, and the OP's case which is Latin fantasai: The proposal is to do this when the size is less than the sink value. fantasai: If size is > sink, we want to align to the bottom metric, because we want the top of the letter to be above the paragraph fantasai: But when size < sink, we align to the top metric so we're pulling up florian: And the initial definition just only considered one case and we forgot the second half? fantasai: pretty much Rossen: Any other opinions? RESOLVED: When 'over-sunk', an initial-letter is aligned with the top metrics instead Houdini: CSS Layout API ======================= Scribe: fantasai Scribe's Scribe: TabAtkins String based inline layout API ------------------------------ github: https://github.com/w3c/css-houdini-drafts/issues/990 Rossen: More and more desire to be able to perform typographic text layout from Canvas Rossen: There were some proposals put forward to essentially expose API in the platform that will allow developers to do that <Rossen> https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/MSEdgeExplainers/blob/main/Canvas/FormattedText.md Rossen: e.g. ^ Rossen: When I looked at it, and when we discussed it, my initial reaction was, hey, we have Houdini, and Houdini Custom Layout API was intended to handle exactly this Rossen: Overall idea, instead of performing layout that is based on a particular subsection of DOM that has text, inline markup, etc. Rossen: Instead expose an API that simply, for custom layout or maybe different API, takes as input a string Rossen: and does layout into the given space Rossen: If Houdini is not able to handle this, we are failing this on some higher level Rossen: So talked about it with iank and he expanded in the issue why this makes perfect sense and is good fit for the API Rossen: Since then see that some additional comments by Travis and ? Rossen: from Edge Team Rossen: and I wanted to essentially turn this into a question and ask, does it seem like a reasonable API? Rossen: Is this a good API to add, given intended functionality? Rossen: Will it serve the purpose motivating the other proposal? AmeliaBR: Ian had a question in the issue about, once you've laid out, how do you query back the position of content? AmeliaBR: If you're going down that road, might look at APIs from SVG AmeliaBR: Can't promise they'll be all you want, but if can harmonize it's better AmeliaBR: More specifically on the proposal, like the idea of being able to run layout separately from full CSS layout context AmeliaBR: And re-using Houdini Layout APIs sounds good AmeliaBR: I'm concerned about being based on simple text strings AmeliaBR: As soon as you go beyond the simplest things, need annotations AmeliaBR: Need info on languages, need markup for bidi, going to need nest it with italic phrase inside regular text phrase, etc. AmeliaBR: So it might be better to keep thinking of styling a DOM fragment AmeliaBR: but DOM fragment doesn't necessarily need to be attached to the document AmeliaBR: Because you will need some hierarchy of content Rossen: What you're asking for already exists, just extending to handle string only fremy: One issue of doing with strings is, if you have ? such as text selection fremy: Doesn't work if you don't have something in the DOM to select fremy: Don't know the use case for the text fremy: But selection is something users expect, and problematic if we can't handle selection fremy: But at the same time, think about what Amelia said fremy: if you have something in the DOM to represent the string fremy: [something about spans] fremy: If in the DOM, you can copy and paste, etc. fremy: A lot of times you don't want to have everything possible in CSS fremy: Sounds useful in many cases iank: The linked formatted text explainer is much more well thought out iank: and seems pretty good iank: Amelia brought up point wrt doing on document fragments iank: Issue there is, this API wanted to work inside of workers iank: because have the Canvas API iank: I don't think needs that much of hierarchy iank: Styling particular runs is roughly equivalent to structured hierarchy iank: One thing to think about there is bidi reordering, though iank: To harmonize APIs iank: call out some core ? or mixins that can be shared between the APIs iank: no reason they should be different sushanth: Motivation was apps, like photoshop / excel sushanth: API was trying to give them ability to do multiline text sushanth: Houdini, they have control over canvas context they'd want text to be rendered? sushanth: Paint Worklet, Houdini controls context sushanth: but these cases rendering other things, just want a few lines of text sushanth: In terms of measuring API, we went towards existing Canvas Text Metrics API sushanth: exposes same set of things sushanth: Not the same as SVG, but has precedence on having some APIs sushanth: Chromium has advances as well sushanth: I think last question, selection / background / borders missing from this API sushanth: with metrics can implement this sushanth: in JS sushanth: Just wanted basic multiline text jfkthame: I wanted to comment that what I've seen of the text metrics API for canvas there, particularly advances from Chromium, that really does not address the needs of international text well jfkthame: Does not handle that one character can map to arbitrary number of glyphs and vice versa jfkthame: The mapping between glyphs and characters can be quite complex, and it doesn't handle that AmeliaBR: Hadn't clicked through to explainer previously, and only saw the examples in the issue. Explainer looks like a much more complex model, allows annotations AmeliaBR: If that's extended to handle i18n issues, that's a good start [wrt bidi and lang?] AmeliaBR: Might be useful to export a DOM fragment to this format AmeliaBR: so if you have CSS-styled markup in Canvas Shadow DOM or in your SVG AmeliaBR: and want to run through this API to get layout, would be a great feature Rossen: SVG has had this capability request for the longest time Rossen: some such as inkscape that support, no renderers Rossen: Want it in Canvas Rossen: If for every one of these [sound breaks] AmeliaBR: He was talking about how SVG has long wanted formatted multiline text, haven't been able to get implemented in browsers, so will be very jealous if Canvas gets it before we do sushanth: Point about advances in text metrics, it's incomplete sushanth: flag to get it to work sushanth: Does handle multiple glyphs per characters sushanth: We augmented with hierarchy to allow advances within ? sushanth: It addresses multiple chars into single glyph is that it gives you the same advance value sushanth: They'll all have the same advance value sushanth: advance = position from the start jfkthame: That won't be any different than a zero-width character, though, right? sushanth: true sushanth: Some other issues also? <AmeliaBR> This is similar to how the SVG API works: multiple characters will match to the same glyph box Rossen: Main point I wanted to make before network drop... Rossen: If we're not looking for ways to harmonize Houdini APIs with rest of platform Rossen: failing main use case of exposing text layout to other things like Canvas and SVG Rossen: As we all know, text seems very benign and easy, when you thinking only about a few ascii glyphs Rossen: breaks based on simple logic Rossen: Things get increasingly complex Rossen: to the point where you're mostly ending up re-implementing layout for CSS Rossen: which now intended to be exposed as Houdini APIs fantasai: Just wanted to say, I echo concerns about getting i18n right. fantasai: Also want to say, I would be very uncomfortable resolving to add a new major text API without Myles signing off fremy: Was thinking about use case, the idea is to run this in workers fremy: because can't access the DOM directly fremy: So that's why don't want to take something from the DOM and draw it fremy: [describes an export from this API to a DOM fragment] fremy: HTML content and canvas can automatically update fremy: what gets drawn on it fremy: that could get the other things to work fremy: for people using the API fremy: Draw on the canvas, put this in the DOM, and gets updated fremy: enables selection, a11y, etc. everything to work fremy: That's an idea, another way of looking at it iank: Based on the canvas text explainer here, definitely possible to harmonize SVG and layout API with this iank: might me helpful to get on videochat and talk about details in detail at some point Rossen: As stated in the beginning, wanted to get opinion on whether good approach in general Rossen: For the proposed solution put together by iank on that issue, wanted to get feedback from sushanth and others Rossen: whether approach worth pursuing Rossen: Closing remarks are let's get together and work on this fantasai: Heard bidi, lang-tagging or markup for change in formatting, selection, a11y, character to glyph mapping ... fantasai: justification? would it be possible? sushanth: canvas has some some text justification, has just left/ right/center fantasai: Just wanted to make sure these points don't get lost florian: Want to echo a bit of the warning Myles gave us last time on this topic florian: Needs to be foolproof, so that if user of API doesn't think about them, they still work florian: otherwise we make large parts of internet inaccessible or unusable to a lot of the world population florian: ... florian: Getting the right balance is hard, but we have to do it iank: This API is a substantial leap forward from current Canvas APIs Myles' comments on designing text APIs, see all of “Houdini <3 Text”: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2019May/0011.html Print Behavior and Test Requirements ------------------------------------ github: https://github.com/w3c/css-houdini-drafts/issues/978 TabAtkins: gsnedders brought up really good point that historically we don't run JS for print TabAtkins: but how should that interact with layout API and paint API? TabAtkins: Print style can change sizes of things TabAtkins: have to run custom paint and custom layout TabAtkins: Are we doing something with that? TabAtkins: If we're not, do we plan to? TabAtkins: We should document this either way, to make sure it's clear how printing and houdini APIs work together Rossen: When are we evaluating print? TabAtkins: When you print a web page TabAtkins: you switch over to print styles and fragment for printing TabAtkins: but aren't running JS iank: These particular things, we should be running any layout API JS AmeliaBR: Definitely as part of a style recalc AmeliaBR: Dunno if works correctly, but that should be the expectation sushanth: For printing, I work on canvas so I know how it works for Canvas sushanth: There's an onBeforePrint event, and you do stuff, and that gets replayed sushanth: when you print, those recordings are played back Rossen: So takeaway is yes, should be running all of the JS hooks and execute scripts that will do custom paint / layout etc. in all of these cases emilio: One question, for print approach, what happens when user changes stuff? emilio: Does print run multiple times? emilio: In Gecko that's not the case emilio: You issue print command, right? emilio: There's a print preview that let's you adjust page size / margins / etc. emilio: We don't dispatch JS events every time that happens emilio: In Gecko, we do a complete separate document just for printing emilio: we fire before print event before doing this emilio: When you change layout, we don't do it over again AmeliaBR: It would be after regular JS event AmeliaBR: Houdini isn't part of event loop, it's triggered by style recalc directly <smfr> we should probably specify when houdini js runs gsnedders: Want to point of last bit of my issue, which was about how we plan on testing the layout API gsnedders: Whether we expect there to be different testing for paged media vs scrolling media iank: There's currently work that is at least planned but maybe not in progress to support better printing in WPT? gsnedders: We have paged reftests, but only currently implemented in Gecko iank: So on Chromium project to add support reftests of that form iank: Testing strategy should be no different from other printing tests gsnedders: ... gsnedders: JS tests for worklets specifically, do we want them to differ from paged media? iank: Changing behavior between paged vs non-paged? iank: Definitely will be a difference iank: sizes change iank: definitely change in layout maybe paint iank: One that's missing is fragmentation support iank: that's one thing that will definitely be triggered by paged media context emilio: We ported a lot of the Gecko paged reftests to be in WPT iank: We're undergoing adding more and more capabilities to our new fragmentation engine iank: adding a lot of those tests as reftests iank: First half of next year will be focusing solely on printing, effectively iank: will add a lot more reftests iank: Will work on supporting print reftests in chromium at the same time gsnedders: I think that answers my questions Rossen: smfr pointed out that we should probably specify when Houdini JS is specified in all of these cases for printing AmeliaBR: Are worklets allowed to do anything asynchronous? TabAtkins: Nope. Very intentionally TabAtkins: Let's record a resolution TabAtkins: Any houdini JS that needs to rerun for style / layout recalc needs to run RESOLVED: Any Houdini JS that needs to run for style / layout calc needs to run for print Publishing ---------- fantasai: Layout API hasn't been published since 2018, and I'm guessing edits have happened since then Rossen: Yes Ian and I both attempted to publish this and both failed fantasai: If you have mechanics issues, can you get a staff contact to help? Rossen: Yes. <astearns> apparently houdini js is failing to run on a publishing step <break type=long>
Received on Sunday, 16 August 2020 12:04:50 UTC