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Re: As foundation for a large text editor web app, would WebGPU be quicker than the 2DContext in HTML Canvas?

From: Justin Novosad <junov@google.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 16:59:57 +0000
Message-ID: <CABpaAqSqBy4FJ5fk7LRofRTjWLz2PPMi4cweARqG9AOpW3sFPQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Kai Ninomiya <kainino@google.com>
Cc: Andrew Varga <grizzly33@gmail.com>, "Eamon O'Tuathail" <eamon.otuathail@gmail.com>, public-gpu@w3.org
Using canvas (2D or WebGL) for a text editor is a double-edged sword and I
would not recommend it unless you are willing to invest a lot of effort
into it.  The browser provides a lot of services that you get for free when
you use HTML text.  Off the top of my head: text selection,
accessibility support, page translation, text search (find in page), text
shaping (ligatures, kerning, etc. see:
bidirectional text rendering (to support right-to-left languages, such as
Arabic), emojis.  There's also a bunch of complex and useful
layout algorithms that the browser provides for positioning text in a
document. Also the web crawlers that update search engine indexes won't see
text that is in a canvas.  Browser extensions that help people with
visual impairments (text magnification, contrast enhancement, color
corrections for the color blind) are unlikely to work correctly.  Most of
these issues have workarounds, and I am sure there are third party
libraries to help with many of these, but it is still a large undertaking.

Using a monospaced font helps avoid many of the complexities of text
shaping. I think that may be what VSCode does. I guess it also depends on
which of the above features you actually need to support.  For an editor
you probably need at the very least to support text selection and text


On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:48 PM Kai Ninomiya <kainino@google.com> wrote:

> +1. There are a number of examples out there that show using GL for editor
> rendering can be extremely efficient. You may only need WebGL 1.0, which
> has almost 100% reach; WebGL 2.0 or WebGPU will reach fewer users and will
> probably provide only small benefits - unless you have specific usecases
> for them (like if you have custom GPU text rendering algorithms or
> something).
> -Kai (he/they)
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 4:27 AM Andrew Varga <grizzly33@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think yes, using WebGL or WebGPU would be much faster than using the
>> canvas 2D context if it's optimized properly.
>> A good example is makepad, which is open source, written in Rust and uses
>> WebGL:
>> https://github.com/makepad/makepad
>> demo:
>> https://makepad.dev/
>> I suspect the difference between WebGL and WebGPU will not be
>> significant, at least initially while WebGPU is still very new.
>> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 11:44 AM Eamon O'Tuathail <
>> eamon.otuathail@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There are a number of ways of creating a text editor in a web app:
>>> 1) using contenteditable
>>> 2) using hidden text area (e.g. as seen with the Visual Studio Code's
>>> Monaco text editor)
>>> https://www.mozzafiller.com/posts/how-does-monaco-editor-enable-textediting-on-a-web-page
>>> 3) using HTML Canvas
>>> It seems for the larger text editor projects there is a trend to using
>>> the HTML Canvas-approach, mostly using the 2D Context with some use of
>>> WebGL. Here are some examples:
>>> Visual Studio Code's use of canvas for the integrated terminal is
>>> described here:
>>> https://code.visualstudio.com/blogs/2017/10/03/terminal-renderer
>>> The Register here writes about Google moving its editors to Canvas:
>>>   https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/13/google_warns_docs_rewrite_will/
>>> Also Y Combinator has a very interesting thread discussing this:
>>>   https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27129858
>>> In particular in the Y Combinator discussion I note Microsoft's Tyiar
>>> states:
>>> -----------------
>>> "I wrote the terminal canvas renderers in VS Code that has been called
>>> out a few times here. Initially I implemented a canvas renderer using just
>>> a 2d context to draw many textures which sped things up "5 to 45 times"[1]
>>> over the older DOM renderer.
>>> Since then I moved onto a WebGL renderer[2] which was mostly a personal
>>> project, it's basically the first canvas renderer but better in every way
>>> since it works by organizing a typed array (very fast) and sending it to
>>> the GPU in one go, as opposed to piece meal and having the browser do its
>>> best to optimize/reduce calls. This was measured to improve performance by
>>> up to 900% in some cases over the canvas renderer"
>>> ----------------
>>> I suspect WebGPU will be faster than WebGL, so my question is, would a
>>> text editor based on WebGPU be the absolutely fastest way of delivering a
>>> modern text editing experience in a web browser/PWA app?
>>> Anyone got thoughts if this would be the case or real world (prototype)
>>> experience of this?
>>> Eamon O'Tuathail
>>> https://clipcode.net
Received on Friday, 16 July 2021 17:01:21 UTC

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