Re: Question regarding the Organization Ontology

How so? A report can be created by a person holding a role, but the role cannot create a report if it is vacant... It is just a thing in this context and cannot be an agent.

Happy to be shown otherwise?

Cheers

Chris Beer
Australia

Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone

---- Christopher Gutteridge wrote ----

>There's no reason the creator can't be both the individual *and* the role. Both are true. Both are useful.
>
>In EPrints, we decided to provide both direct and easy to consume dcterms:creators for authors, but also a bibo:authorList which links to an RDF sequence, for people who need to know the ordering of the authors. Both are valid and it's fine to include both in one scheme.
>http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/cgi/export/eprint/191579/RDFN3/eps-eprint-191579.n3
>
>Your situation is similar. If you really can't decide, just do both. Although I'd strongly recommend writing a simple application to consume your own data. It's amazing how quickly things come into focus when you actually try to use your beautifully modelled graph and discover it's missing vital bits or way to complex. 
>
>On 10/03/2014 18:07, James McKinney wrote:
>
>Hmm, I guess that will depend on your model for the report. I suppose one way of doing it would be to have the range of the "creator" property be either an individual or an org:Membership? Another way may be to leave the "creator" property as-is, and to create a new property on the report to point to the relevant membership (or more, generally, the context in which the creator created the report); that may be the better option as it won't complicate the creator property. Those are the two ideas that come to mind.
>
>
>James
>
>
>On 2014-03-10, at 1:48 PM, Anne Ward wrote:
>
>
>Hi James, 
>
>
>I have one more question regarding this approach. This works perfectly for identifying the posts held by an individual and their timing. 
>
>
>My next question relates to a situation where an individual is the “creator” of a report (for example) while holding a given post - i.e., they can be a “creator” as both an individual (as in private letters) and as an individual “holding” a “post” with an organization (e.g., letters written while in office). 
>
>
>How would one model the second situation?
>
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>Anne
>
>On Mar 10, 2014, at 11:56 AM, James McKinney <james@opennorth.ca> wrote:
>
>
>I've done something similar to Bernard, except instead of using a new Position class, I simply add a "post" property to org:Membership. Instead of people holding posts directly, all people hold posts through their memberships; I therefore do not use the org:holds or org:heldBy properties. org:Membership already has org:memberDuring to express the time interval during which the membership exists, or in my case during which the post is held.
>
>
>With respect to Christopher's affiliations, I add an "onBehalfOf" property to org:Membership, to express on whose behalf that person is a member.
>
>
>I prefer to avoid a proliferation of sub-classes when an additional property would do.
>
>
>James
>
>
>On 2014-03-10, at 11:21 AM, Anne Ward wrote:
>
>
>Thank you everyone for your quick responses as well as the options you have identified. 
>
>
>I now will take a closer look at the modelling solutions identified to better understand them and to identify how each would address the example I am trying to work out.
>
>
>Anne
>
>On Mar 10, 2014, at 10:39 AM, Christopher Gutteridge <cjg@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>
>It is important to be able to talk about a post which is vacant. 
>
>You potentially need to be able to talk about an individual, a post within the organisation and their membership of that post. This becomes very useful when you want to distinguish relationships and responsibilities.
>
>For example; "Post 120" supervises "Post 121". However things like committee memberships are actually attached to your membership of the orgainsation... if person X is on a committee and then retires and person Y is appointed to her post, it does not automatically make Y a member of the committee, other committee memberships may be explicitly for people with certain posts.
>
>Finally you have relationships to or between individuals themselves, however these will generally be out of the scope about what an organisation cares about.
>
>One area this has mattered for me is in producing linked data from a conference. http://programme.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ -- I ended up inventing an "Affiliation" class as I needed to represent the same person speaking in two different sessions and with a different affiliation. One talk was about his work, the second about a hobby project or somesuch. It mattered to represent which "hat" he was wearing.
>
>
>On 10/03/14 13:29, jean delahousse wrote:
>
>Hello, 
>
>Why not use Membership which is richer than Post ? 
>
>http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/REC-vocab-org-20140116/#class-membership
>
>It is the class I proposed for EU directory.
>
>Jean
>
>
>
>2014-03-10 14:24 GMT+01:00 Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>:
>
>Hi Anne
>
>What I do for that kind of situation is to make distinct classes "Position" and "Post" (or Job, whatever you want to name it)
>
>:Anne :positionHeld :Position12345
>
>:Position12345  :beginDate "2012-10-01"
>:Position12345  :endDate "2013-12-31" 
>
>:Position12345  :postHeld  :PostX
>:Position12345  :employer :OrgY
>
>:Position12345 is actually an "Event"
>
>:PostX is qualifying the "Position type" or "Job", e.g.; "Chief Technical Officer" "Documentalist" etc.
>
>You can relate successive positions held by the same person using something like http://vocab.org/bio/0.1/.html
>
>My 0.02 
>
>Bernard
>
>
>
>
>
>2014-03-07 17:14 GMT+01:00 Anne Ward <anne.ward@rogers.com>: 
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I am planning to use the organization ontology in examples of defining relationships between persons and organizations. In particular, I found the addition of “Post” quite applicable to the examples I am trying to illustrate.
>
>I have a question regarding its usage, when specifying that a person “holds” a “Post” within an organization. As a “Post” can be held by many people over time, what would be the best approach for modelling the time interval in a which a given person “holds” a given “Post”?
>
>Please advise.
>
>Thank you.
>
>Anne Ward
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>
>Bernard Vatant
>
>Vocabularies & Data Engineering
>
>Tel :  + 33 (0)9 71 48 84 59
>
>Skype : bernard.vatant
>
>http://google.com/+BernardVatant
>
>--------------------------------------------------------
>
>Mondeca                             
>
>3 cité Nollez 75018 Paris, France
>
>www.mondeca.com
>
>Follow us on Twitter : @mondecanews
>
>----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>
>Jean Delahousse
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>delahousse.jean@gmail.com - +33 6 01 22 48 55  
>
>http://fr.linkedin.com/in/jeandelahousse
>
>
>
>
>-- Christopher Gutteridge -- http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/cjg University of Southampton Open Data Service: http://data.southampton.ac.uk/ You should read the ECS Web Team blog: http://blogs.ecs.soton.ac.uk/webteam/ Would you recommend the software you use to another institution? http://uni-software.ideascale.com/ 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-- Christopher Gutteridge -- http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/cjg University of Southampton Open Data Service: http://data.southampton.ac.uk/ You should read the ECS Web Team blog: http://blogs.ecs.soton.ac.uk/webteam/