- From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 18:54:22 -0400
- To: "public-fx@w3.org" <public-fx@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference 04 Apr 2011 [2]Agenda [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0170.html See also: [3]IRC log [3] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-irc Attendees Present smfr, +1.206.675.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, ed, +1.650.253.aabb, TabAtkins, ChrisL, anthony, hober Regrets Chair erik Scribe shepazu Contents * [4]Topics 1. [5]CSS Animation synchronization 2. [6]SVG/CSS 2d transforms - 'transform-origin' 3. [7]Filter Effects status update * [8]Summary of Action Items _________________________________________________________ <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2011 <scribe> scribeNick: shepazu CSS Animation synchronization <ed> [9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0168.htm l [9] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0168.html ed: long thread, wondered what the status of the animation work is? smfr: Dean promised to publish a draft this week ... has an API for WebKit ed: does it do sync? smfr: I don't think so ... it's hard to do smooth frame synchronization starting one animation at the end of another ... hard to get seamless joins based on 'animationEnd' event ChrisL: so, you want a negative offset? smfr: I think it's better to use JS APIs, per Dean's spec cabanier: on mobile devices, JS overhead becomes tens of seconds TabAtkins: that's based on the traditional approach, not Dean's approach smfr: you would set it up using keyframes or such, not execute it directly (?) cabanier: on iPad, we have to skip frames on animations, how would you set this up? TabAtkins: [missed] cabanier: ok, I'll have to see it working TabAtkins: it's simple at the moment, but has clear directions for expansion ed: does this solve Paul's concerns? cabanier: paul was asking about pausing and rewinding animations, or replacing them midway through ... we were more concerned about synchronization in a simple manner ... without setting it up in advance or keying off an animation event handler ed: ok, we will wait for Dean's spec before going further SVG/CSS 2d transforms - 'transform-origin' <ed> [10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0158.ht ml [10] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0158.html anthony: been discussion on the list about how the transform attribute is going to be used in relation to CSS ... I thought we were going for an override, but the list discussion doesn't seem to agree ... ROC put up some options... I don't have personal preferences, I am just curious what others think we should do? <ed> [11]http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTrans forms.html [11] http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTransforms.html anthony: the most pertinent point for this discussion is point 1: "Elements with SVG transform attributes must default to top-left as their transform origin, but CSS transforms default to the center." anthony: not sure the spec reflects the group decision at this point ed: I think it does reflect this first point ... for backwards compatibility <smfr> [12]http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTrans forms.html#transform-origin [12] http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTransforms.html#transform-origin ed: 'transform-origin' property has an initial value of center (50%,50%) for CSS, and origin (0,0) for SVG <ed> initial value is auto <ed> but it maps to those anthony: seems like people are leaning toward roc's option 1a: "1a) Introduce a UA style rule that sets transform-origin to "top left" for all SVG elements." ... would this apply before or after the transform is applied? smfr: SVG or CSS transform? anthony: I thought we were doing a 1-1 mapping? smfr: not sure how they interact shepazu: do CSS transforms override or supplement SVG transforms? ChrisL: depends on if @transform is promoted to a CSS property <ChrisL> if its promoted toa property then a style rule overrides. if not,then they could be defined to combine. Depends what we want ed: I did an experimental implementation that did a post-multiply, and it seemed easy enough to use, but felt a bit strange not to have @transform as a presentation attribute <ChrisL> Not promoting transform to a property minimises the backwards compatibility issues and means the dom still works as it did before ed: didn't experiment much, but that was the easiest way anthony: what about animation? shepazu: still works for animating with CSS animations ChrisL: I think the simpler path is not promoting @transform to a property, and just define how they combine shepazu: I tend to agree, though ed's point is taken ed: yeah, that solves the DOM issues as well shepazu: my only concern would be for SVG UAs that don't support CSS, but I think those are dwindling anthony: would CSS transforms still apply to SVG ChrisL: yes, they would be separate sources of transformation, and you would simply post-multiply them Resolution: pending further discussion with other stakeholders, we will not define @transform as a presentation attribute <scribe> ACTION: anthony to reply to Roc's email with our suggested resolution [recorded in [13]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action01] <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Reply to Roc's email with our suggested resolution [on Anthony Grasso - due 2011-04-11]. Filter Effects status update <ed> [14]http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2DB3AE4504E944AF122BBFBA7FBA1F582D2DC1@T K5EX14MBXC114.redmond.corp.microsoft.com [14] http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2DB3AE4504E944AF122BBFBA7FBA1F582D2DC1@TK5EX14MBXC114.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ChrisL: my impression is that CSS people want it to be very simple, and that adding borders, backgrounds, etc complicates it, so a better would be to add new 'in's to the SVG filter primitives ... simon had a counterproposal with separate names, but that raised the question of how they combined ed: I think I'm in favor of having additional filter input image keywords, and we could define them for the SVG case ChrisL: for instance, for things that don't use the CSS box model, you would just use transparent black for the border image (for example) ed: we already have 'backgroundImage', but could do it differently for HTML <scribe> ACTION: ed to add filter input image keywords for CSS and HTML [recorded in [15]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action02] <trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Add filter input image keywords for CSS and HTML [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-04-11]. ed: would like to have a list... background of element, border, content box... ChrisL: padding is always transparent... ... so, that's a good list ... start with simple ones, like solid and dotted border, and give it a dropshadow ... then experiment with 9-box, apply effects... string of pearls, celtic knot... ... take the alpha channel of the border image to produce a dropshadow, I think that would be compelling ed: I'll also try to combine SVG Compositing to filters.... haven't looked at it yet... <scribe> ACTION: ed to add normative reference to SVG Compositing in Filters, and merge them where it applies [recorded in [16]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action03] <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Add normative reference to SVG Compositing in Filters, and merge them where it applies [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-04-11]. trackbot: end telcon Summary of Action Items [NEW] ACTION: anthony to reply to Roc's email with our suggested resolution [recorded in [17]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action01] [NEW] ACTION: ed to add filter input image keywords for CSS and HTML [recorded in [18]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action02] [NEW] ACTION: ed to add normative reference to SVG Compositing in Filters, and merge them where it applies [recorded in [19]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action03]
Received on Monday, 4 April 2011 22:54:28 UTC