- From: Doug Schepers <schepers@w3.org>
- Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 18:54:22 -0400
- To: "public-fx@w3.org" <public-fx@w3.org>
http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html
CSS-SVG Task Force Teleconference
04 Apr 2011
[2]Agenda
[2]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0170.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-irc
Attendees
Present
smfr, +1.206.675.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, ed, +1.650.253.aabb,
TabAtkins, ChrisL, anthony, hober
Regrets
Chair
erik
Scribe
shepazu
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]CSS Animation synchronization
2. [6]SVG/CSS 2d transforms - 'transform-origin'
3. [7]Filter Effects status update
* [8]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 04 April 2011
<scribe> scribeNick: shepazu
CSS Animation synchronization
<ed>
[9]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0168.htm
l
[9]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0168.html
ed: long thread, wondered what the status of the animation work is?
smfr: Dean promised to publish a draft this week
... has an API for WebKit
ed: does it do sync?
smfr: I don't think so
... it's hard to do smooth frame synchronization starting one
animation at the end of another
... hard to get seamless joins based on 'animationEnd' event
ChrisL: so, you want a negative offset?
smfr: I think it's better to use JS APIs, per Dean's spec
cabanier: on mobile devices, JS overhead becomes tens of seconds
TabAtkins: that's based on the traditional approach, not Dean's
approach
smfr: you would set it up using keyframes or such, not execute it
directly (?)
cabanier: on iPad, we have to skip frames on animations, how would
you set this up?
TabAtkins: [missed]
cabanier: ok, I'll have to see it working
TabAtkins: it's simple at the moment, but has clear directions for
expansion
ed: does this solve Paul's concerns?
cabanier: paul was asking about pausing and rewinding animations, or
replacing them midway through
... we were more concerned about synchronization in a simple manner
... without setting it up in advance or keying off an animation
event handler
ed: ok, we will wait for Dean's spec before going further
SVG/CSS 2d transforms - 'transform-origin'
<ed>
[10]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0158.ht
ml
[10]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-fx/2011JanMar/0158.html
anthony: been discussion on the list about how the transform
attribute is going to be used in relation to CSS
... I thought we were going for an override, but the list discussion
doesn't seem to agree
... ROC put up some options... I don't have personal preferences, I
am just curious what others think we should do?
<ed>
[11]http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTrans
forms.html
[11]
http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTransforms.html
anthony: the most pertinent point for this discussion is point 1:
"Elements with SVG transform attributes must default to top-left as
their
transform origin, but CSS transforms default to the center."
anthony: not sure the spec reflects the group decision at this point
ed: I think it does reflect this first point
... for backwards compatibility
<smfr>
[12]http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTrans
forms.html#transform-origin
[12]
http://dev.w3.org/Graphics-FX/modules/2D-transforms/spec/2DTransforms.html#transform-origin
ed: 'transform-origin' property has an initial value of center
(50%,50%) for CSS, and origin (0,0) for SVG
<ed> initial value is auto
<ed> but it maps to those
anthony: seems like people are leaning toward roc's option 1a: "1a)
Introduce a UA style rule that sets transform-origin to "top left"
for all SVG elements."
... would this apply before or after the transform is applied?
smfr: SVG or CSS transform?
anthony: I thought we were doing a 1-1 mapping?
smfr: not sure how they interact
shepazu: do CSS transforms override or supplement SVG transforms?
ChrisL: depends on if @transform is promoted to a CSS property
<ChrisL> if its promoted toa property then a style rule overrides.
if not,then they could be defined to combine. Depends what we want
ed: I did an experimental implementation that did a post-multiply,
and it seemed easy enough to use, but felt a bit strange not to have
@transform as a presentation attribute
<ChrisL> Not promoting transform to a property minimises the
backwards compatibility issues and means the dom still works as it
did before
ed: didn't experiment much, but that was the easiest way
anthony: what about animation?
shepazu: still works for animating with CSS animations
ChrisL: I think the simpler path is not promoting @transform to a
property, and just define how they combine
shepazu: I tend to agree, though ed's point is taken
ed: yeah, that solves the DOM issues as well
shepazu: my only concern would be for SVG UAs that don't support
CSS, but I think those are dwindling
anthony: would CSS transforms still apply to SVG
ChrisL: yes, they would be separate sources of transformation, and
you would simply post-multiply them
Resolution: pending further discussion with other stakeholders, we
will not define @transform as a presentation attribute
<scribe> ACTION: anthony to reply to Roc's email with our suggested
resolution [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Reply to Roc's email with our
suggested resolution [on Anthony Grasso - due 2011-04-11].
Filter Effects status update
<ed>
[14]http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2DB3AE4504E944AF122BBFBA7FBA1F582D2DC1@T
K5EX14MBXC114.redmond.corp.microsoft.com
[14]
http://www.w3.org/mid/4A2DB3AE4504E944AF122BBFBA7FBA1F582D2DC1@TK5EX14MBXC114.redmond.corp.microsoft.com
ChrisL: my impression is that CSS people want it to be very simple,
and that adding borders, backgrounds, etc complicates it, so a
better would be to add new 'in's to the SVG filter primitives
... simon had a counterproposal with separate names, but that raised
the question of how they combined
ed: I think I'm in favor of having additional filter input image
keywords, and we could define them for the SVG case
ChrisL: for instance, for things that don't use the CSS box model,
you would just use transparent black for the border image (for
example)
ed: we already have 'backgroundImage', but could do it differently
for HTML
<scribe> ACTION: ed to add filter input image keywords for CSS and
HTML [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-29 - Add filter input image keywords for
CSS and HTML [on Erik Dahlström - due 2011-04-11].
ed: would like to have a list... background of element, border,
content box...
ChrisL: padding is always transparent...
... so, that's a good list
... start with simple ones, like solid and dotted border, and give
it a dropshadow
... then experiment with 9-box, apply effects... string of pearls,
celtic knot...
... take the alpha channel of the border image to produce a
dropshadow, I think that would be compelling
ed: I'll also try to combine SVG Compositing to filters.... haven't
looked at it yet...
<scribe> ACTION: ed to add normative reference to SVG Compositing in
Filters, and merge them where it applies [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Add normative reference to SVG
Compositing in Filters, and merge them where it applies [on Erik
Dahlström - due 2011-04-11].
trackbot: end telcon
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: anthony to reply to Roc's email with our suggested
resolution [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to add filter input image keywords for CSS and HTML
[recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: ed to add normative reference to SVG Compositing in
Filters, and merge them where it applies [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2011/04/04-fx-minutes.html#action03]
Received on Monday, 4 April 2011 22:54:28 UTC