Blake Jones, ViewPlus/DAISY
Charlie Wiecha, IBM
Erik Bruchez, Orbeon
John Boyer, IBM (chair)
Leigh Klotz, Xerox (minutes)
Mark Birbeck, x-port.net
Nick van den Bleeken, Inventive Designers
Roger Pérez, SATEC
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer, DreamLabs
Shane McCarron, Aptest
Steven Pemberton, CWI/W3C
Uli Lissé, DreamLabs
Keith Wells, IBM
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Nov/0071.html
John Boyer: The call is later
today.
Steven Pemberton: Zakim will allocate
a space for us.
Leigh Klotz: I'm still waiting for
the implementation report from PicoForms.
John Boyer: Can you ask Mark?
Action 2007-11-21.1: Leigh Klotz to ask Mark Seaborne for XForms 1.0 Basic implementation report status.
John Boyer: Can Steven and Mark Birbeck look at their action items lists?
John Boyer: We still need text from
Martin Düerst. I sent mail saying it's informative and we'd
still like the text at any time. He didn't respond.
John Boyer: Steven, you said some
folks had observed that we don't have a completely elaborated
example in that appendix. We can add it once we get the updated
appendix. There's been no email to forms-editor about that
issue.
Steven Pemberton: Someone forwarded me
a message from someone else about it. How should we treat it? I
think adding it to the issues list as a CR comment is an excellent
suggestion. The person who sent it is currently implementing
inputmode.
Action 2007-11-21.2: John Boyer to add example for inputmode to issues list (received indirectly as comment but after last call deadline) and to contact Yam.
John Boyer: I got some feedback.
Nick?
Nick van: The problem of reducing the
F2F meetings for my company is that the F2F gives us the most
benefit and the interesting discussions happen there. In this
proposal we introduce two weekly teleconferences and it's really
hard for my employer to ensure that I'm available at those two
different hours. We also have some experience where lowering the
number of F2F meetings doesn't help. The problems are funding or
other reasons. When I have a phone call I do it at work and then
have to drive back home and home at 8pm and leave at 7am, so if
it's every week two days, it's quite a commitment.
Steven Pemberton: [irc] +1 on the
value of FtFs
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: [irc] +1
John:[irc] +1
Charlie Wiecha: [irc] +1
Roger Pérez: [irc] +2 (Rafa and
me)
Keith Wells: [irc] +1
Uli Lissé: [irc] +1 from me too
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2007Nov/0081.html
Nick van: I spoke to Mark Seaborne and
he said that lowering the number of meetings would not ensure that
he could come to the all. He said he can't attend both phone
calls.
Charlie Wiecha: Whatever n is, the
suggestion is always n-1.
John Boyer: So we should increase
n?
Nick van: ...
John Boyer: The official standing is
every 2 out of 3, but different people have different things that
come up.
Leigh Klotz: In my company, there are
predicable time when we can't travel due to budget restrictions. In
particular, fourth quarter is never a time to be able to
travel.
Nick van: [irc] but the TPAC is in the
4th q
Steven Pemberton: You should tell your
AC rep that then because the TPAC is then.
John Boyer: A massive reduction of
F2F doesn't seem like a good idea. Sebastian has proposed perhaps
three per year and a longer telecon. What do people think about
that then?
Steven Pemberton: If you can't come to
the meeting, at least come to the IRC and if you can the telecon.
If the IRC reflects the meeting you can get a lot of work
done.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: My
observation is that 60 minutes is too short. The HCG WG has 90
minutes; that seems to work pretty well. At 60 minutes we have
interesting issues and they get cut off. Some people could leave at
the hour. Then have three F2F. Or I guess four F2F.
John Boyer: I like that best. Two
calls a week is a big change and I was worried about it. Let's
start with the longer telecon idea. What about the Europeans?
Steven Pemberton: I can't make it
later, but XHTML2 is moving an hour earlier.
Mark Birbeck: Why doesn't that
help?
John Boyer: If the half hour went
later, that would be...I wonder if we moved back over to Thursdays?
The HTML call was in the way.
Steven Pemberton: We have a task force
WG then.
Mark Birbeck: How about 1/4 hour
earlier and later.
John Boyer: Does that eat into HTML
time?
Steven Pemberton: No, we are
moving.
Leigh Klotz: I could handle 15 minutes
earlier.
Charlie Wiecha: For me too. I have a
10:00am meeting.
John Boyer: Is there anyone on the
call who doesn't like making that amendment in the new year?
Steven Pemberton: Starting a quarter
hour earlier and ending a quarter hour later.
Leigh Klotz: I'll only take minutes
for the first hour.
John Boyer: OK, that will give us
exercise on the list.
Resolution 2007-11-21.1: We go to 90 minute calls, starting 15 minutes earlier and ending 15 minutes later, in January.
John Boyer: How about longer F2F
meetings.
Charlie Wiecha: An extra day.
Mark Birbeck: ...
John Boyer: The downside is one of our
F2F meetings needs to be at the tech plenary.
Leigh Klotz: It's always short there.
Focus on trying to meet with other groups and work issues at the
other meetings.
John Boyer: Can we change the meeting
in North Carolina?
Keith Wells: The 4th 5th and 6th of
February?
John Boyer: Would it tough to get an
extra day?
Keith Wells: Yes.
John Boyer: Ok, so an extra day in
Amsterdam?
Steven Pemberton: That's not
hard.
John Boyer: So generally a four-day
meeting on the non tech-plenary meetings?
John Boyer: Some plus ones are showing
up.
Charlie Wiecha: So Steven is obviously
going to the Tech Plenary.
John Boyer: I can't get out of it
either.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: So now we
are voting at more days per meeting, not less meetings.
Steven Pemberton: [irc] If it's 3*4
days then +1 for me.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: At the
TPAC?
Steven Pemberton: We can do more than
two days only by working on the weekend.
Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer: So two
meetings at 4 days and then 2 at the TPAC.
Mark Birbeck: We also talked about
imaginative alternatives to meetings, such as working days. As
Sebastian said, we have the same number of physical meetings. So
maybe have one of the meetings be different.
John Boyer: Can we push Amsterdam out
a bit?
Nick van: Then we lose Victoria.
John Boyer: True. Five days in
Amsterdam?
Leigh Klotz: Five days seems too long;
with 4 we can change the way we discuss things and make better
progress.
John Boyer: The week before the TPAC
that Thursday and Friday might be good days to have a virtual F2F.
Then four days for the other two. We are still in charter as well.
Does this sound like a plan?
Steven Pemberton: To summarize: 1.5
hour phone calls, two four-day meetings, and two virtual days the
week before TPAC and two days at TPAC.
John Boyer: [irc] Generally, 3
meetings of 4 days in total. The last of the year would be the
TPAC. Two virtual days before the TPAC and then 2 days at the TPAC
for those who can make it
John Boyer: And this takes effect with
the Amsterdam F2F. The next one after Amsterdam will be half
virtual/half TPAC. So where should the second F2F of the year be?
Would we loose Victoria? We'd have to do Victoria after the
TPAC.
John Boyer: Would you still host if we
move in June?
Steven Pemberton: In principle, yes.
Hotels would be at a premium that month, though. Far enough in
advance it shouldn't be a problem. Book early though.
John Boyer: Any constraints on which
week in June, 2008?
Mark Birbeck: Not the first
week.
John Boyer: June 9-12, 2008 in
Amsterdam.
John Boyer: Ok, so we have committed
to more work now and less travel. Let's call this resolved.
Resolution 2007-11-21.2: We resolve to have three F2F meetings per year, four days per meeting, and that the final meeting is half-virtual, half-TPAC.
Resolution 2007-11-21.3: F2F in June 9-12, 2008 in Amsterdam.
John Boyer: We need editors for
XForms 1.2 and XForms 2.0 in parallel. Nick, how about you being an
editor for 1.2.
Nick van: I can commit, yes. I
discussed it in my company.
Steven Pemberton: [irc]
Excellent.
John Boyer: Is there anyone on the
call who is uncomfortable with that?
Steven Pemberton: Delighted!
John Boyer: Are there others?
Leigh Klotz: I'll be glad to help out
on one of them, whichever needs help.
John Boyer: Which one?
Leigh Klotz: Whichever; I don't want
to be in charge though.
Mark Birbeck: When RDFa is done I'll
have more spec time.
John Boyer: Anybody else for
2.0?
Nick van: [irc] John you are the 2.0
master
Keith Wells: [irc] +1 for John
Mark Birbeck: The more modular we can
make it the better; CURiES, @role, etc. If we have modules maybe we
won't have too sharp a distinction between 1.2 and 2.0
anyway.
Charlie Wiecha: [irc] +1 for
modules
John Boyer: Next week let's talk about future specifications. Bug reports for 15 minutes at most for the rest of the year. We'll report on the transition.