W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-forms-tf@w3.org > September 2007

Re: Web Forms 2 - version clarification, please?

From: Chris Lilley <chris@w3.org>
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:38:45 +0200
Message-ID: <642882580.20070905133845@w3.org>
To: "Gregory J. Rosmaita" <oedipus@hicom.net>
Cc: connolly@w3.org, chrisw@microsoft.com, steven@cwi.nl, karl@w3.org, <boyerj@ca.ibm.com>, <public-forms-tf@w3.org>

On Sunday, September 2, 2007, 8:45:10 PM, Gregory wrote:

GJR> aloha, all!

GJR> it is my understanding that the basis of the HTML WG's approach to forms
GJR> is contained in Web Forms 2.0 as it was submitted to the W3C in 2006:

GJR> http://www.w3.org/TR/web-forms-2/

Note: The document you cited is not the submission; its the WD published by the WAF WG (as its SOTD says).

The submission is at

GJR> what i find problemmatic are two issues:

GJR> first, is the following statement which appears in the "Status of This
GJR> Document" section of the 2006-08-21 draft of Web Forms 2.0, which is 
GJR> housed in the W3C's TR directory:

GJR> <q cite="http://www.w3.org/TR/web-forms-2/#status">

Which particular part did you find problematic? I can guess at several areas, but would prefer to hear which ones were troubling you.

GJR> second, in light of that text, which is the version of WF2 which is 
GJR> supposed to form the basis of our review?  the only other draft of WF2
GJR> in w3c web space is that which was pushed to CVS in 12 october 2006:

GJR> http://dev.w3.org/html5/web-forms-2/Overview.html

Yes, I agree that is the most recent version in W3C space.

GJR> as far as i can tell, the 21 august 2006 and the 12 october 2006 drafts
GJR> are the ONLY web forms 2.0 drafts in W3C space -- are we to assume, 
GJR> therefore, that the 12 october 2006 is the latest draft submitted to the
GJR> W3C, and hence the actual basis of our task force?

Yes. Note that this work item was removed from the WAF WG at the time the HTML, XHTML2 and Forms WGs were chartered.

GJR> as with the HTML5 draft itself, i would STRONGLY suggest that the 
GJR> verbiage:

GJR> quote
GJR> If you wish to make comments regarding this document, please send them to
GJR> whatwg@whatwg.org (subscribe, archives) and public-appformats@w3.org 
GJR> (subscribe, archives). All feedback is welcome.
GJR> unquote

GJR> be changed to point comments regarding the WF2 document to either the 
GJR> joint forms task force list, the public-appformats list, or the HTML 

I agree, and thats easy - a new SOTD can be produced when the TF publishes a new document..

GJR>  moreover,

GJR> quote:
GJR> Snapshots of the editor's copy of this specification are occasionally 
GJR> submitted to W3C CVS. The latest editor's draft is available on the 
GJR> WHATWG site, and in the WHATWG Subversion repository. Detailed change 
GJR> history can be obtained from the Subversion repository as well.

GJR> This specification was originally created, and is still now being 
GJR> developed, outside the W3C. The W3C Web Application Formats Working 
GJR> Group is responsible for this specification's progress along the W3C 
GJR> Recommendation track. This document consists of the initial step along
GJR> that process, the first public working draft.
GJR> unquote

GJR> what precisely does the phrase "occasionally submitted to the W3C CVS"
GJR> actually mean? 

That seems to have been the arrangement in the WAF WG; but as they are no longer developing this specification it does not need to be the procedure in this TF.
GJR>  the latest editor's draft of a W3C submission should 
GJR> not be housed outside of W3C space, nor should it continued to be 
GJR> developed outside of W3C once submitted to the W3C, without it being 
GJR> formally resubmitted, since the changes have been taking place outside
GJR> of W3C's ken, without even the "occasional" push of a draft to W3C CVS,
GJR> i find it imcomprehensible that we should use as our basis of 
GJR> conversation a draft which has continued to develop and receive feedback
GJR> in a forum outside the W3C -- this isn't a mere process issue, but an 
GJR> essential point -- how can we collaborate on forms for HTML5 if one of
GJR> the foundational documents keeps shifting under our feet in a forum 
GJR> outside of that to which it was submitted?

I completely agree with your point.

GJR> this is the first important point that must be answered before any actual
GJR> work on comparing drafts begins...  has all of the work i've performed
GJR> reviewing the 21 august 2006 version been in vain? 

I would assume not.

 Chris Lilley                    mailto:chris@w3.org
 Interaction Domain Leader
 Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
 W3C Graphics Activity Lead
 Co-Chair, W3C Hypertext CG
Received on Wednesday, 5 September 2007 11:38:59 UTC

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