Re: [SocialSwarm-D] D-CENT: state of the art - not

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tl;dr: the Web is efficient, GNUnet is effective. Both can be seen as
P2P solutions. Transitioning from one to the next is the state of the art.

On 02/26/2014 07:16 AM, carlo von lynX wrote:
>> 
>> In any case it likely would not be that easy to connect Elgg
>> instances using XMPP because PHP does not seem to be the best
>> language for XMPP.
> 
*** That is wrong. First of all, the XMPP implementation "in Elgg" is
not using PHP but a full-blown XMPP server written in Erlang, with an
authentication connector in Perl. The only PHP part is the GUI that
generates the Javascript to implement on-screen, in-browser chat.
Which means you can use any XMPP client, e.g., to connect to N-1.

>> It _might_ make sense for D-CENT to stick with OStatus, but then
>> it should not be sold as _the_ future of the Social Web.
> 
*** Indeed, OStatus is a walking dead. But I realize how it could have
been seen as a solution because I did exactly the same mistake for the
GNU consensus. I did not yet update the manifesto nor the
documentation to mention new routes, but OStatus is certainly out.
Linked Data, Microformats and the UnHosted approach are probably best
suited for the Web way. I see all the components, Web sockets, etc. as
unnecessary patches. If we're there, why not use GNUnet directly? It
supports HTTPS and will do a better job than Websockets at keeping you
free from prying eyes.

Disclaimer: he who tells me that I have to install software to run
GNUnet must remember that a web browser is software to install, and if
it ships with the OS, just start shipping GNUnet with the OS and
forget about the installation fallacy. We're talking of GNUnet 1.0,
you still have a couple of years to catch up with it.

> It may work as an isolated platform, but from my understanding an
> Elgg- based platform provides neither scalability nor the
> confidentiality a group of activists would need. There are reasons
> why Lorea developers are running Elgg in maintenance mode and
> looking out for more appropriate solutions.
> 
*** That's one of the reasons, but unfortunately I must say that
there's not much competition to Lorea in terms of functionality to
help organizing local communities. If you know anything good, please
tell me.

My main concern reading this proposal was to see that Elgg+OStatus was
a proposed solution, and that I can't remember seeing any such
discussion on Lorea. That must have corresponded with my forced
retreat from online activity during the 15M. If so, that illustrates
another reason why Lorea is in "maintenance mode".

>>> The IndieWeb work is making some progess now around
>>> WebMention,
>> 
>> For those who are interested: 
>> https://indiewebcamp.com/webmention
> 
> Which is just an optimization of the already existing pingback
> hack on top of HTTP. It solves no new problems, it is barely more
> efficient than with XML inside and most of all it is no tool to
> implement a scalable distributed social web.
> 
*** The only advantage the Web-based approach has over a P2P approach
is the availability of solutions, right here, right now. That they
won't stand the proof of time is fine, as GNUnet is here to address
the scalability issues and all kinds of effectivity. So, it's fine to
identify flaws and fallacies, but it's even better to establish
engineering routes towards proper support and porting of functionality
from one platform to the next. My only wish is that the lessons
learned with the Web can be useful when we go fully decentralized.
I.e., the Web was born as a P2P idea, and GNUnet can offer it to come
back to its roots.

I see more reasons to work on transitioning from the clear text Web to
the encrypted GNUnet, than losing breath trying to fix the unfixable
and work on pseudo-solutions that will be less secure, less effective,
and more complicated to run. Kiss good bye to centralized solutions
(and that includes silly concepts such as "trusted third party", "DNS
root", and "web site") and embrace the P2P way. The most promising
approach I've seen so far is definitely UnHosted apps. Drop
everything, but URIs and LinkedData, and make that work on top of
GNUnet. A content-addressable Web with no legacy power control.

==
hk

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Received on Wednesday, 26 February 2014 14:41:45 UTC