JAPANESE WOES

Thanking Greg at Nexcess.net and the many people at
public-evangelist@w3.org auch as  Karl Dubost <karl@w3.org>, etc.

SUMMARY
(1) I have done two tests of my problem of unredable Japanese (where I  
never had this problem before)  and found that working at home on a  
MAC OSX creating files in Mozilla (which previously worked), uploading  
to tokyoprogressive.org and tokyoprogressive.org.uk (two companies)  
both fail in all encodings of Japanese.

(2) I wrote to the w3.org list and requested help.  I got an  
explanation, but it was above my head (sorry).

(3) I have tested at work on Windows 2000 and this time uft-8 works on  
both servers plus Google.  Shift-Jis works only on one of the servers.

(4) Conclusion?  Could there be something wrong with my MAC suddenly?   
Should I try another Mac at home?  Could it be my internet provider?
The fact that  the files work (all uft versions, at least) from work  
Windows machine (also Mozilla) and they do not work from home seems to  
say something happened to my Mac.


DETAILS BELOW FOR TESTING

LAST NIGHT FROM HOME (MAC/MOZILLA)

  http://tokyoprogressive.org/testz.html
  http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/testz.html

  http://tokyoprogressive.org/testzz.html
  http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/testzz.html


TODAY AT WORK
Then today, at work, on a Windows 2000 machine I used Mozilla and  
again created two files.  This time a uft-8 file and a Shift-Jis file.  
  (I prefer UFT-8 but wanted to check.) This time, more encouraging.   
I uploaded to 3 places:

NO GOOD (SHIFT JIS)
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfztwqbx_31fcz6hv
GOOD
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dfztwqbx_32p97g5t


NO GOOD
http://tokyoprogressive.org/shiftjis.html
GOOD
http://tokyoprogressive.org/uft8.html



GOOD
http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/shiftjis.html
GOOD
http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/uft8.html




There are question as yet unclear ahbout server configurations, but I  
thought it significant that things have worked from this Windows  
MAchine.


THanks



> I do not think it is the server, because I just took two more files.
> one was created before and called testz.  The other i created now in
> Mozilla using UFT-8.
> Called testzz,  I uploaded both to two different servers and both  came
> out wrong.
>
>
> Is my Mozilla corrupted?
>
> http://tokyoprogressive.org/testz.html
> http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/testz.html
>
> http://tokyoprogressive.org/testzz.html
> http://tokyoprogressive.org.uk/testzz.html
>
>
> Going to bed, it is midnight here.  Good night, and thanks.
>
>
> __/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/
> Paul Arenson
>
> EMAIL
> paul@tokyoprogressive.org
>
> PHONE &VOICE MAIL
> 1-617-379-0761 (U.S.)
> 090-4173-3873 (Japan)
> paularenson (Skype)
> __/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 13, 2006, at 11:40 PM, Greg Swaney wrote:
>
>> I did a lot of poking and changing character sets on your account    
>> on sunday and it never showed the characters how they were supposed  
>>   to be shown. What did w3 say?
>>
>> Paul Arenson wrote:
>>> Hi Greg
>>> Further to my Sunday post about files I create in various    
>>> encodings using Mozilla looking ok on my desktop but not on the    
>>> server, I wrote to w3.org and they advised me, but it is way over   
>>>  my head.
>>> What i am guessing is that files created by Expression Engine    
>>> output in unicode (UFT-8) and somehow something on the server    
>>> (database?)
>>> tells the server to do something to the encoding.  Anyway, when I   
>>>  create a uft encoding on my desktop, it is served different on  
>>> the   site.....
>>> I still use Expression Engine, but also use my own pages.
>>> Maybe I should contact the guy who set up expression engine for me?
>>> I am totally lost....though perhaps it is simple?
>>> Thanks!
>>> paul
>>> see below from the web person--> public-evangelist@w3.org    
>>> <mailto:public-evangelist@w3.org>
>>> thanks
>>> __/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/
>>> Paul Arenson
>>> EMAIL
>>> paul@tokyoprogressive.org <mailto:paul@tokyoprogressive.org>
>>> PHONE &VOICE MAIL
>>> 1-617-379-0761 (U.S.)
>>> 090-4173-3873 (Japan)
>>> paularenson (Skype)
>>> __/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/__/
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>> *Resent-From: *public-evangelist@w3.org <mailto:public- evangelist@w3.org>
>>>> *From: *Karl Dubost <karl@w3.org <mailto:karl@w3.org>>
>>>> *Date: *November 13, 2006 10:22:09 PM JST
>>>> *To: *Paul Arenson <paul@tokyoprogressive.org    
>>>> <mailto:paul@tokyoprogressive.org>>
>>>> *Cc: *public-evangelist@w3.org <mailto:public-evangelist@w3.org>
>>>> *Subject: **Re: japanese encoding nightmare*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 13 nov. 2006 à 10:50, Paul Arenson a écrit :
>>>>> UNSUCCESSFUL EXAMPLE (Looks ok on desktop but not on server)
>>>>> http://tokyoprogressive.org/why.html
>>>>>
>>>>> CODE
>>>>> <meta content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" http-equiv="content- type">
>>>>
>>>> but this page is not in utf-8 but in shift-jis
>>>>
>>>> Either you have to save your page as utf-8 or to change the    
>>>> encoding information to
>>>> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;">
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> SUCCESSFUL EXAMPLE ONE (JAPANESE COMES OUT RIGHT)
>>>>> http://www.tokyoprogressive.org/index/weblog/print/april-entries/
>>>>
>>>> Yes the page is rightly utf-8. not valid but utf-8
>>>> http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%   
>>>> 2Fwww.tokyoprogressive.org%2Findex%2Fweblog%2Fprint%2Fapril-   
>>>> entries%2F
>>>>
>>>>> This was made via EXPRESSION ENGINE
>>>>>
>>>>> I note I have both  xml: lang and  uft-8.
>>>>
>>>> xml:lang doesn't influence the display of the page. It is there    
>>>> for example for triggering the right accent when passing the text  
>>>>   through a vocal browser. Or to help translation engines (not   
>>>> sure  they implement it though). Or to help spelling cheker to   
>>>> choose  the right dictionary.
>>>>
>>>> I would recommend that you stick to utf-8, it would help to keep   
>>>>  consistency in the way you serve the pages.
>>>>
>>>> A cool plug-in that could be develop and be added to LogValidator.
>>>> http://www.w3.org/QA/Tools/LogValidator/
>>>>
>>>> Given a list of URIs, create a table with
>>>> uri   server_encoding   meta_encoding    guessed_encoding
>>>>
>>>> Someone on the list would like to do that?
>>>> http://www.w3.org/QA/Tools/LogValidator/Manual-Modules
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I THOUGHT I did  this in UFT-8, but no.
>>>>> Mozilla even says it is UFT-8, but as you can see the code is  western.
>>>>> In other words, why does it work?
>>>>
>>>> because so browsers try to display wrong pages (invalid, wrong    
>>>> encoding, etc.) then people who develop Web pages do not know    
>>>> that they have done something wrong, and they do not fix it. IMHO  
>>>>   it is a mistake from browsers.
>>>> It is cool to try to recover and display the page, but it is    
>>>> wrong to do silent recovery, as we do not enter in a cycle which   
>>>>  help everyone to fix things and have a better experience.
>>>>
>>>>> SUCCESSUL EXAMPLE FOUR (most bizarre?)
>>>>> I even forgot to add the meta tag!!!
>>>>> http://tokyoprogressive.org/
>>>>
>>>> The server is sending by default an information which has usually  
>>>>   priority other the information contained in the file.
>>>> The encoding in a file is a guess, and the browser _should_    
>>>> follow what the servers says.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Make a page in several  encodings
>>>>> http://tokyoprogressive.org/a.html
>>>>> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
>>>>> <html>
>>>>> <head>
>>>>>  <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-2022-JP"
>>>>> LOOKS OK ONLINE
>>>>
>>>> doesn't look ok for me.
>>>>
>>>> but your server is configured in a strange way
>>>>
>>>> GET /a.html HTTP/1.1[CRLF]
>>>> Host: tokyoprogressive.org[CRLF]
>>>> Connection: close[CRLF]
>>>> Accept-Encoding: gzip[CRLF]
>>>> Accept: text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/   
>>>> html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5[CRLF]
>>>> Accept-Language:    
>>>> fr,en;q=0.9,ja;q=0.9,de;q=0.8,es;q=0.7,it;q=0.7,nl;q=0.6,sv;q=0.5,nb   
>>>> ;q=0.5,da;q=0.4,fi;q=0.3,pt;q=0.3,zh-Hans;q=0.2,zh-   
>>>> Hant;q=0.1,ko;q=0.1[CRLF]
>>>> Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7[CRLF]
>>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X; en-US; rv:  
>>>>  1.8.0.7) Gecko/20060911 Camino/1.0.3 Web-Sniffer/1.0.24[CRLF]
>>>> Referer: http://web-sniffer.net/[CRLF]
>>>> [CRLF]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7[CRLF]
>>>>
>>>> You serve first iso-8859-1 and then utf-8 and then anything.    
>>>> Maybe one of the sources of your problems is there.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Change all your pages in one encoding only.
>>>> utf-8
>>>> 2. Change the configuration of your server to send only utf-8.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Karl Dubost - http://www.w3.org/People/karl/
>>>> W3C Conformance Manager, QA Activity Lead
>>>>  QA Weblog - http://www.w3.org/QA/
>>>>     *** Be Strict To Be Cool ***
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Greg Swaney
>> NEXCESS.NET Internet Solutions
>> http://nexcess.net
>> 304 1/2 S. State St.
>> Ann Arbor, MI 48104
>> 1.866.NEXCESS

Received on Tuesday, 14 November 2006 02:13:39 UTC