- From: Chris Hubick <chris@hubick.com>
- Date: 08 Jul 2002 17:10:03 -0600
- To: W3C Evangelist <public-evangelist@w3.org>
Hi :) Part 1 - Introduction - A practical example: Many of the web designers I train want to make "Flash" sites. The reality is that there are many sites out there who insist on providing this type of content. I have been strongly encouraging these web designers to evaluate standard and accessible technologies such as SVG and SMIL. I have been promoting the idea that there is not a lot of things you can do with proprietary technology like Flash or Internet Explorer extensions that can't be done just as well through W3C recommendations. But in my experience demonstrating this, there is one area that has traditionally fallen short, and still does. Sound. Have you ever tried to include a looped sound clip on a standards compliant web page? It boils down to this, you can have the page validate, OR you can have it work. In theory I totally agree with the W3C party line that HTML is not a multimedia oriented language, and sound is outside it's scope. There has also been much debate, which I don't want to get into here (sound is just an example of a larger problem), regarding the attitude that 'proper' web pages should not even play sounds automatically, as it is intrusive. The fact is that there are many cases in the Real World where sound is very appropriate, whether it be auditory feedback for an intranet application, or a page on MTV.com. I agree that SMIL is the appropriate technology for this task. There are several SMIL players out there, one of the more prominently deployed currently being RealONE. Part 2 - The Actual Problem - Integration It's not just sound though. The problem above is one of many. The crux of most problems I now encounter in doing web design is integration. The W3C has all of these working groups, each with a clearly defined scope. These groups all do a fine job creating technology within their scope. The problem is that none of these technologies exist in a vacuum. There are many practical problems every related working group will tell you are outside their scope (and it's true). Going back to my practical example above, have you ever tried to include SMIL content in a web page? If you want it to validate or work, you have to tie that page (CLSID) to a particular implementation (on a particular platform). If I write the general cross implementation/platform: <object type="application/smil" data="loopedsound.smil" /> How many browsers on computers with current SMIL players will display that properly? (answer: not many, if any) Not all of these gaps are even new SVG, SMIL, or CSS3 type issues. Working groups have, within the last year or two, at least started to increase their scope to include things like MIME types as part of the specification, along with Namespaces and such. But for example, you still have an HTML specification from the W3C which uses a whole chapter to define a 'script' element, and you have ECMA with their ECMA-262 Script (aka Javascript) which has a working group to define a popular content for said script element, yet they don't define a mime type for said script. Yes, that is correct, there is, as far as I know, no document or standard which defines a mime type for Javascript. The defacto mime type in use today (text/javascript), which works everywhere, is, from a purist perspective, arguably incorrect - it should probably be application/javascript - which, incidentally, doesn't really work anywhere. There is java script on a LOT of web pages out there, yet no standard formally defines this application. These gaps are what I am talking about. [Incidentally, some time ago I asked Waldemar Horwat from Netscape, who is on the TC39 group which defines ECMA script, about the above issue. He said he would ask at next meeting if they wanted to do something about it, but I never heard back from him] There are many problems like this. Threading! What if I have a script on some web page manipulating the DOM of that page... yet have an event handler in an SVG applet try to do the same? Multiple threads in a Java applet calling into the web page DOM? "Threading is outside the scope of this specification". Part 3 - Denouement It's the gaps between the specifications. The "devil is in the details" complexities of the interactions between the specifications. It's the problems nobody thinks belong to them. These are problems where implementors are just forced to choose something they think is logical, and that is how we end up with five varying implementations. There /should/ be an integration working group! I'm sure every web designer out there, and on this list, could name at least a few areas where they have run into undefined behavior such as this. At the very least, we need some evangelism effort to get problems like this solved. Somewhere people can bring questions like this and find answers, or help getting someone to take action. That is why I am here. Can this group help get things like <object type="application/smil" data="loopedsound.smil" /> to work? -- Chris Hubick mailto:chris@hubick.com http://www.hubick.com/
Received on Monday, 8 July 2002 19:09:06 UTC