Re: AW: AW: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)?

Great, Joachim!

Antoine

On 13/04/17 10:22, Neubert, Joachim wrote:
> Hi Antione,
>
> Your comment tips the balance, and I have removed the subproperty statement and inserted a sentence in the definition, which will avoid any reasoning been messed up:
>
> <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/altLabelNarrower>
>      a owl:AnnotationProperty ;
>      rdfs:isDefinedBy <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/zbw-extensions.rdf> ;
>      rdfs:label "altLabelNarrower"@en ;
>      skos:definition """Lexical label for a narrower term which is
>      not defined as a separate concept (according to ISO 25964, 8.4), sometimes
>      referred to as 'upward posting'. Intended for use with
>      skos:Concept, instead of using skos:altLabel."""@en .
>
> Cheers, Joachim
>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. April 2017 23:08
>> An: public-esw-thes@w3.org
>> Betreff: Re: AW: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)?
>>
>> Hi Joachim,
>>
>> If you really can't avoid representing these things, then the pattern you've
>> chosen (simple property, not hiddenLabel) is probably the best one.
>> This said having this property as sub-property of skos:altLabel has downsides for
>> interoperability. I mean, if data consumers expect skos:altLabel to reference
>> labels with the same meaning (more or less) as the prefered label, finding your
>> altLabelNarrower in the middle of them could have bad consequences.
>>
>> Actually even your own application, if it uses reasoning, may end up showing
>> this:
>> [
>> Social class
>>                   used for: Social background, Elite, Middle class, Working class
>>                   also utilized for: Elite, Middle class, Working class ]
>>
>> If Elite, Middle class, Working class are altLabelNarrower then they are also
>> altLabel and thus would end up in your 'used for' display.
>>
>> So maybe you could create our new property without any rdfs:subPropertyOf?
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Antoine
>>
>> On 12/04/17 17:46, Neubert, Joachim wrote:
>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>
>>> Thank you all for your feedback! I've answerd to some mails, but
>> unfortunately not included the list, so I'll try to summarize the suggestions,
>> before introducing my solution:
>>>
>>>
>>> "upwards posting" not considered a good practice / why not define
>>> seperate concepts
>>>
>>> As mentioned in many answers, the whole "upwards posting" looks a bit
>> messy. I found it already in place when I started working with STW some years
>> ago. However: For every subject vocabulary, there are peripheral areas, where
>> it makes sense to work on a coarser granularity of concepts. For the example
>> given below ("Social class") the STW defines explicit narrower concepts (see
>> http://zbw.eu/stw/descriptor/15717-1), whereas a taxonomy for mathematics
>> could choose to do not so. This is in accordance with ISO 25964, 8.4. A valid
>> reason mentioned there is to reduce the number of concepts in a vocabulary, in
>> particular if very little information on the more specific concepts would be
>> available in the given context.
>>>
>>> Nevertheless, these terms exist. Often, explicit descisions have been made
>> about their subsumption under a broader concept, and in my eyes it makes
>> sense to document these descisions and make the broader concept retrievable
>> via the subsummarized term (particularly for indexing, as Stella notes). Even in
>> selected retrieval/search expansion cases these terms may be useful (think of
>> building categorial facets for search results of indexed and non-indexed
>> documents), while in most cases you definitively want to exclude them.
>>>
>>>
>>> use skos:hiddenLabel
>>>
>>> I've considered a usage similar to what Christophe suggested, but
>>> ended up with dedicating skos:hiddenLabel to _invisible_ labels
>>> (mis-spellings and the like). Because of the documentary value
>>> discussed above, I want to show the "upwards-posted" terms to the
>>> thesaurus users, e.g. like this
>>>
>>> Social class
>>>                   used for: Social background
>>>                   also utilized for: Elite, Middle class, Working class
>>>
>>>
>>> use SKOS-XL labels, or lexinfo:approximateSynonym/lexinfo:hyponym
>>>
>>> Since these are object properties, they would require separate URIs.
>>> That would mean "more things" in the concept scheme, which I wanted to
>>> avoid in the first place - plus increased structural complexity :-(
>>>
>>>
>>> Since it looks like nobody has already created what we search for,
>>> I've introduced a custom specialization of skos:altLabel
>>>
>>> <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/altLabelNarrower>
>>>       a owl:AnnotationProperty ;
>>>       rdfs:isDefinedBy <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/zbw-
>> extensions.rdf> ;
>>>       rdfs:label "altLabelNarrower"@en ;
>>>       rdfs:subPropertyOf skos:altLabel ;
>>>       skos:definition """Lexical label for a narrower term which is
>>>       not defined as a separate concept (according to ISO 25964, 8.4),
>> sometimes
>>>       referred to as 'upward posting'."""@en .
>>>
>>> This is not carved in stone, so I'd be happy to receive further feedback.
>>>
>>> Thanks again, and have fine holidays - Joachim
>>>
>>> PS. I'm aware that the specialization above does not cover the use case
>> illustrated by Christophe with the "Coke/Cola/Cocaine" example. However, if
>> additional functionality is required (asking the use to choose between
>> alternatives), a separate property would make sense to trigger such a
>> functionality explicitely.
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>>>> Von: Stella Dextre Clarke [mailto:stella@lukehouse.org]
>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 31. März 2017 21:33
>>>> An: Antoine Isaac; public-esw-thes@w3.org
>>>> Betreff: Re: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)?
>>>>
>>>> Upward posting may have some useful contexts at the indexing stage,
>>>> but not for automatic search expansion, I suggest. It can be a useful
>>>> source of ideas in contexts where a human intermediary chooses to
>>>> increase recall, but not where the machine applies it blindly.
>>>>
>>>> Stella
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 31/03/2017 19:20, Antoine Isaac wrote:
>>>>> Hi Joachim, all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know of any predicate that would answer the need. Maybe
>>>>> because upward posting is not really recognized as a good practice
>>>>> in general ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Antoine
>>>>>
>>>>> On 28/03/17 10:13, Thomas Francart wrote:
>>>>>> Not exactly a specialization of skos:altLabel, but Lexinfo defines
>>>>>> http://www.lexinfo.net/ontology/2.0/lexinfo#approximateSynonym or
>>>>>> http://www.lexinfo.net/ontology/2.0/lexinfo#hyponym to be used to
>>>>>> relate two LexicalSenses in Ontolex.
>>>>>> Why aren't "Elite", "Middle class" and "Working class" defined as
>>>>>> skos:narrowers of "Social class" ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thomas
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-03-28 9:51 GMT+02:00 Neubert, Joachim <J.Neubert@zbw.eu
>>>>>> <mailto:J.Neubert@zbw.eu>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       SKOS does not distinguish between synonyms and quasi-synonyms
>>>>>> resultig from „upwards posting“ (as mentioned in
>>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/#secalt
>>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/#secalt>). To give an example
>>>>>> (taken from
>>>>>> https://www.slideshare.net/accessinnovations/taxonomy-fundamentals-
>>>>>> wo
>>>>>> rkshop-2013/37
>>>>>> <https://www.slideshare.net/accessinnovations/taxonomy-fundamentals
>>>>>> -w
>>>>>> orkshop-2013/37>):____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       :xyz skos:prefLabel “Social class” ;____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            skos:altLabel “Elite”, “Middle class”, “Working class”
>>>>>> .____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       When in a retrievel or voculary mapping application each pref-
>>>>>> and altLabel is used as synoym for each other, this creates nasty
>>>>>> problems: If, e.g., the user searches for “Elite”, she also gets
>>>>>> documents with “Middle class” and “Working class”.____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       We consider introducing some custom sub-property of
>>>>>> skos:altLabel to differentiate the cases, like this:____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       :xyz skos:prefLabel “Social class” ;____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            skos:altLabel “Social background” ;____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            custom:altLabelNarrower “Elite”, “Middle class”, “Working
>>>>>> class” .____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Is anybody aware of custom specializations of skos:altLabel
>>>>>> for quasi-synonyms we could re-use?____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       Any hints appreciated – cheers, Joachim____
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       __ __
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> *Thomas Francart* -*SPARNA*
>>>>>> Web de _données_ | Architecture de l'_information_ | Accès aux
>>>>>> _connaissances_ blog : blog.sparna.fr <http://blog.sparna.fr>, site :
>>>>>> sparna.fr <http://sparna.fr>, linkedin :
>>>>>> fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart
>>>>>> <https://fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart>
>>>>>> tel :  +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97, skype : francartthomas
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *****************************************************
>>>> Stella Dextre Clarke
>>>> Vice-Chair, ISKO UK and Vice-President, ISKO Luke House, West
>>>> Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK
>>>> Tel: 01235-833-298
>>>> stella@lukehouse.org
>>>> *****************************************************
>>>>
>>>
>

Received on Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:54:16 UTC