- From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:53:41 +0200
- To: "'public-esw-thes@w3.org'" <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
Great, Joachim! Antoine On 13/04/17 10:22, Neubert, Joachim wrote: > Hi Antione, > > Your comment tips the balance, and I have removed the subproperty statement and inserted a sentence in the definition, which will avoid any reasoning been messed up: > > <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/altLabelNarrower> > a owl:AnnotationProperty ; > rdfs:isDefinedBy <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/zbw-extensions.rdf> ; > rdfs:label "altLabelNarrower"@en ; > skos:definition """Lexical label for a narrower term which is > not defined as a separate concept (according to ISO 25964, 8.4), sometimes > referred to as 'upward posting'. Intended for use with > skos:Concept, instead of using skos:altLabel."""@en . > > Cheers, Joachim > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: Antoine Isaac [mailto:aisaac@few.vu.nl] >> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. April 2017 23:08 >> An: public-esw-thes@w3.org >> Betreff: Re: AW: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)? >> >> Hi Joachim, >> >> If you really can't avoid representing these things, then the pattern you've >> chosen (simple property, not hiddenLabel) is probably the best one. >> This said having this property as sub-property of skos:altLabel has downsides for >> interoperability. I mean, if data consumers expect skos:altLabel to reference >> labels with the same meaning (more or less) as the prefered label, finding your >> altLabelNarrower in the middle of them could have bad consequences. >> >> Actually even your own application, if it uses reasoning, may end up showing >> this: >> [ >> Social class >> used for: Social background, Elite, Middle class, Working class >> also utilized for: Elite, Middle class, Working class ] >> >> If Elite, Middle class, Working class are altLabelNarrower then they are also >> altLabel and thus would end up in your 'used for' display. >> >> So maybe you could create our new property without any rdfs:subPropertyOf? >> >> Best, >> >> Antoine >> >> On 12/04/17 17:46, Neubert, Joachim wrote: >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> Thank you all for your feedback! I've answerd to some mails, but >> unfortunately not included the list, so I'll try to summarize the suggestions, >> before introducing my solution: >>> >>> >>> "upwards posting" not considered a good practice / why not define >>> seperate concepts >>> >>> As mentioned in many answers, the whole "upwards posting" looks a bit >> messy. I found it already in place when I started working with STW some years >> ago. However: For every subject vocabulary, there are peripheral areas, where >> it makes sense to work on a coarser granularity of concepts. For the example >> given below ("Social class") the STW defines explicit narrower concepts (see >> http://zbw.eu/stw/descriptor/15717-1), whereas a taxonomy for mathematics >> could choose to do not so. This is in accordance with ISO 25964, 8.4. A valid >> reason mentioned there is to reduce the number of concepts in a vocabulary, in >> particular if very little information on the more specific concepts would be >> available in the given context. >>> >>> Nevertheless, these terms exist. Often, explicit descisions have been made >> about their subsumption under a broader concept, and in my eyes it makes >> sense to document these descisions and make the broader concept retrievable >> via the subsummarized term (particularly for indexing, as Stella notes). Even in >> selected retrieval/search expansion cases these terms may be useful (think of >> building categorial facets for search results of indexed and non-indexed >> documents), while in most cases you definitively want to exclude them. >>> >>> >>> use skos:hiddenLabel >>> >>> I've considered a usage similar to what Christophe suggested, but >>> ended up with dedicating skos:hiddenLabel to _invisible_ labels >>> (mis-spellings and the like). Because of the documentary value >>> discussed above, I want to show the "upwards-posted" terms to the >>> thesaurus users, e.g. like this >>> >>> Social class >>> used for: Social background >>> also utilized for: Elite, Middle class, Working class >>> >>> >>> use SKOS-XL labels, or lexinfo:approximateSynonym/lexinfo:hyponym >>> >>> Since these are object properties, they would require separate URIs. >>> That would mean "more things" in the concept scheme, which I wanted to >>> avoid in the first place - plus increased structural complexity :-( >>> >>> >>> Since it looks like nobody has already created what we search for, >>> I've introduced a custom specialization of skos:altLabel >>> >>> <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/altLabelNarrower> >>> a owl:AnnotationProperty ; >>> rdfs:isDefinedBy <http://zbw.eu/namespaces/zbw-extensions/zbw- >> extensions.rdf> ; >>> rdfs:label "altLabelNarrower"@en ; >>> rdfs:subPropertyOf skos:altLabel ; >>> skos:definition """Lexical label for a narrower term which is >>> not defined as a separate concept (according to ISO 25964, 8.4), >> sometimes >>> referred to as 'upward posting'."""@en . >>> >>> This is not carved in stone, so I'd be happy to receive further feedback. >>> >>> Thanks again, and have fine holidays - Joachim >>> >>> PS. I'm aware that the specialization above does not cover the use case >> illustrated by Christophe with the "Coke/Cola/Cocaine" example. However, if >> additional functionality is required (asking the use to choose between >> alternatives), a separate property would make sense to trigger such a >> functionality explicitely. >>> >>> >>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >>>> Von: Stella Dextre Clarke [mailto:stella@lukehouse.org] >>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 31. März 2017 21:33 >>>> An: Antoine Isaac; public-esw-thes@w3.org >>>> Betreff: Re: Predicate for quasi-synoyms (with upwards posting)? >>>> >>>> Upward posting may have some useful contexts at the indexing stage, >>>> but not for automatic search expansion, I suggest. It can be a useful >>>> source of ideas in contexts where a human intermediary chooses to >>>> increase recall, but not where the machine applies it blindly. >>>> >>>> Stella >>>> >>>> >>>> On 31/03/2017 19:20, Antoine Isaac wrote: >>>>> Hi Joachim, all, >>>>> >>>>> I don't know of any predicate that would answer the need. Maybe >>>>> because upward posting is not really recognized as a good practice >>>>> in general ;-) >>>>> >>>>> Antoine >>>>> >>>>> On 28/03/17 10:13, Thomas Francart wrote: >>>>>> Not exactly a specialization of skos:altLabel, but Lexinfo defines >>>>>> http://www.lexinfo.net/ontology/2.0/lexinfo#approximateSynonym or >>>>>> http://www.lexinfo.net/ontology/2.0/lexinfo#hyponym to be used to >>>>>> relate two LexicalSenses in Ontolex. >>>>>> Why aren't "Elite", "Middle class" and "Working class" defined as >>>>>> skos:narrowers of "Social class" ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thomas >>>>>> >>>>>> 2017-03-28 9:51 GMT+02:00 Neubert, Joachim <J.Neubert@zbw.eu >>>>>> <mailto:J.Neubert@zbw.eu>>: >>>>>> >>>>>> SKOS does not distinguish between synonyms and quasi-synonyms >>>>>> resultig from „upwards posting“ (as mentioned in >>>>>> https://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/#secalt >>>>>> <https://www.w3.org/TR/skos-primer/#secalt>). To give an example >>>>>> (taken from >>>>>> https://www.slideshare.net/accessinnovations/taxonomy-fundamentals- >>>>>> wo >>>>>> rkshop-2013/37 >>>>>> <https://www.slideshare.net/accessinnovations/taxonomy-fundamentals >>>>>> -w >>>>>> orkshop-2013/37>):____ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> :xyz skos:prefLabel “Social class” ;____ >>>>>> >>>>>> skos:altLabel “Elite”, “Middle class”, “Working class” >>>>>> .____ >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> When in a retrievel or voculary mapping application each pref- >>>>>> and altLabel is used as synoym for each other, this creates nasty >>>>>> problems: If, e.g., the user searches for “Elite”, she also gets >>>>>> documents with “Middle class” and “Working class”.____ >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> We consider introducing some custom sub-property of >>>>>> skos:altLabel to differentiate the cases, like this:____ >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> :xyz skos:prefLabel “Social class” ;____ >>>>>> >>>>>> skos:altLabel “Social background” ;____ >>>>>> >>>>>> custom:altLabelNarrower “Elite”, “Middle class”, “Working >>>>>> class” .____ >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> Is anybody aware of custom specializations of skos:altLabel >>>>>> for quasi-synonyms we could re-use?____ >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> Any hints appreciated – cheers, Joachim____ >>>>>> >>>>>> __ __ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> * >>>>>> * >>>>>> *Thomas Francart* -*SPARNA* >>>>>> Web de _données_ | Architecture de l'_information_ | Accès aux >>>>>> _connaissances_ blog : blog.sparna.fr <http://blog.sparna.fr>, site : >>>>>> sparna.fr <http://sparna.fr>, linkedin : >>>>>> fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart >>>>>> <https://fr.linkedin.com/in/thomasfrancart> >>>>>> tel : +33 (0)6.71.11.25.97, skype : francartthomas >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> Stella Dextre Clarke >>>> Vice-Chair, ISKO UK and Vice-President, ISKO Luke House, West >>>> Hendred, Wantage, OX12 8RR, UK >>>> Tel: 01235-833-298 >>>> stella@lukehouse.org >>>> ***************************************************** >>>> >>> >
Received on Thursday, 13 April 2017 14:54:16 UTC