- From: Antoine Isaac <aisaac@few.vu.nl>
- Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 11:56:27 +0200
- To: Alistair Miles <alimanfoo@googlemail.com>
- CC: Christophe Dupriez <christophe.dupriez@destin.be>, Simon Cox <simon.cox@jrc.ec.europa.eu>, 'Sue Ellen Wright' <sellenwright@gmail.com>, 'Matthias Löbe' <matthias.loebe@imise.uni-leipzig.de>, 'Bernard Vatant' <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>, 'Dan Brickley' <danbri@danbri.org>, 'Marc Wick' <marc@geonames.org>, 'Dublin Core' <DC-ARCHITECTURE@jiscmail.ac.uk>, 'SKOS' <public-esw-thes@w3.org>, 'Leigh Dodds' <leigh.dodds@talis.com>, 'Libby Miller' <Libby.Miller@bbc.co.uk>, 'Lise Rozat' <lise.rozat@mondeca.com>, 'Dominique Vanpée' <dominique.vanpee@poisoncentre.be>, 'Wim Daeleman' <wim.daeleman@poisoncentre.be>
Hi everyone, If the discussion is being moved slowly towards representation of different versions of concepts, you might be interested to have a look (and add) to this wiki page: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/SKOS/Issues/ConceptEvolution :-) Cheers, Antoine > Hi Christophe, > > On Mon, Jul 05, 2010 at 06:36:22PM +0200, Christophe Dupriez wrote: >> What would be an elegant way to represent supersession (superseded / >> superseding) as a relation between two concepts >> OR as a simple trace of a previous identifier redirected to a new >> one (like with HTTP status 301 where the old page is not >> accessible)? > > I haven't thought about this very deeply, but I think I would do both. > > I.e., add... > > <http://example.org/concepts/X> dcterms:isReplacedBy<http://example.org/concepts/Y> . > > ...to my triples, and make sure that... > > GET /concepts/X > Host: example.org > > ...returns... > > 301 > Location: http://example.org/concepts/Y > > ...although thinking about this a bit more, this does mean that if you > were ever interested in data about the superseded concept, you > wouldn't be able to retrieve the data directly (because of the > 301). So now I'm not sure if the 301 is a good idea. > > Btw, dcterms [1] has dcterms:replaces and dcterms:isReplacedBy which > are possibly suitable. > > Cheers > > Alistair > > [1] http://dublincore.org/documents/dcmi-terms/#terms-replaces > >> >> My two cents: >> 1) renaming my "alias" field to "superseding" which can be a literal >> (old Identifier of deleted concept) or a relation (URL of >> deprecated/retired concept). >> This shows that a superseded concept can be deprecated >> (retirement cannot be complete because old data must be reindexed) >> or retired (no more data uses the superseded concept but one >> wants to keep trace of it). This requires an independent >> "supersededBy" field. >> 2) adding an optional "supersededBy" relation containing the URL of >> the new Concept >> (or ConceptS if the replacements request a human decision, >> indexed record by indexed record) >> >> Have a nice evening, >> >> Christophe >> >> Le 30/06/2010 14:33, Simon Cox a écrit : >>> Now I've seen how the appalling webmail client provided by my employer >>> garbled that I think it is worth trying again: >>> >>> 8.8.4 status >>> The derived attribute status shall be represented as an instance of >>> RE_ItemStatus (8.20) that identifies the >>> registration status of the RE_RegisterItem. The value is derived through the >>> Addition and Amendment >>> associations as specified by the constraint: >>> >>> {if >>> exists -> (self.amendmentInformation.amendmentType = #retirement >>> and self.amendmentInformation.disposition = #accepted >>> and self.amendmentInformation.status = #final) >>> then self.status = #retired >>> else if >>> exists -> (self.amendmentInformation.amendmentType = #supersession >>> and self.amendmentInformation.disposition = #accepted >>> and self.amendmentInformation.status = #final) >>> then self.status = #superseded >>> else if >>> exists -> (self.additionInformation.disposition = #accepted >>> and self.additionInformation.status = #final) >>> then self.status = #valid >>> else self.status = #notValid >>> endif} >>> >>> (I guess this is OCL.) >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> Simon Cox >>> >>> European Commission, Joint Research Centre >>> Institute for Environment and Sustainability >>> Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262 >>> Via E. Fermi, 2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy >>> Tel: +39 0332 78 3652 >>> Fax: +39 0332 78 6325 >>> mailto:simon.cox@jrc.ec.europa.eu >>> http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/simon-cox >>> >>> SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ >>> IES Institute: http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ >>> JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Any opinions expressed are personal unless otherwise indicated. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org] >>> On Behalf Of Simon Cox >>> Sent: Tuesday, 29 June 2010 19:11 >>> To: Christophe Dupriez >>> Cc: 'Sue Ellen Wright'; 'Matthias Löbe'; 'Bernard Vatant'; 'Alistair Miles'; >>> 'Dan Brickley'; 'Marc Wick'; 'Dublin Core'; 'SKOS'; 'Leigh Dodds'; 'Libby >>> Miller'; 'Lise Rozat'; Dominique Vanpée; Wim Daeleman >>> Subject: RE: Status of SKOS resources (stable, testing etc) >>> >>> Here is the logic as described in ISO 19135: >>> >>> 8.8.4 status >>> The derived attribute status shall be represented as an instance of >>> RE_ItemStatus >>> (8.20) that identifies the registration status of the RE_RegisterItem. The >>> value is derived through the Addition and Amendment associations as >>> specified by the constraint: >>> >>> {if >>> exists -> (self.amendmentInformation.amendmentType = #retirement and >>> self.amendmentInformation.disposition = #accepted and >>> self.amendmentInformation.status = #final) then self.status = #retired else >>> if exists -> (self.amendmentInformation.amendmentType = #supersession and >>> self.amendmentInformation.disposition = #accepted and >>> self.amendmentInformation.status = #final) then self.status = #superseded >>> else if exists -> (self.additionInformation.disposition = #accepted and >>> self.additionInformation.status = #final) then self.status = #valid else >>> self.status = #notValid endif} >>> >>> >>>> -- Original Message -- >>>> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 18:54:48 +0200 >>>> From: Christophe Dupriez<christophe.dupriez@destin.be> >>>> Subject: Status of SKOS resources (stable, testing etc) >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Simon, >>>> >>>> You propose an orthogonal representation of the NSDL RegStatus proposal. >>>> I was (like you) feeling it would be better up to the moment I saw that >>>> a workflow would be needed (only precise state changes would be allowed). >>>> Then the NSDL RegStatus seemed a constrained list of possible >>>> combinations of the 3 dimensions you indicate. >>>> >>>> Whatever is the representation, we need now a table of permitted status >>>> changes (being one or three variables) with the question asked at each >>> step: >>>> it may then be possible to define this to a workflow engine and have >>>> for "free" a terminology collaboration system! >>>> http://java-source.net/open-source/workflow-engines >>>> Anyone knows what is working in practice in this domain? >>>> >>>> A simple attempt to fully modelize a workflow is below: >>>> (S are states, Q are questions, X are eXceptions/eXits from normal path): >>>> >>>> S1: New-Proposed (notValid or retired or superseded if coming from S9, >>>> accepted,pending) [set by ANYONE] >>>> Q1: Please Improve up to the point it makes an acceptable proposal for >>>> the validation committee! >>>> X1:Rejected (retired or superseded/notAccepted/final) or >>>> continues to: >>>> S2: New-Under review (notValid or retired or superseded if coming from >>>> S9, accepted,tentative)[set by THESAURUS MANAGER] >>>> Q2: Does the validation committee accept this new contribution? >>>> X2:Rejected S9 (retired/notAccepted/final) or continues to: >>>> S3: Published (valid, accepted,final)[set by VALIDATION COMMITTEE] >>>> Q3: Some problems with this? (change, deprecate?) >>>> >>>> S4: Change-Proposed (valid,accepted,pending) [set by ANYONE] >>>> Q4: Please Improve up to the point it makes an acceptable change for >>>> the >>>> >>>> validation committee! >>>> X6: return to S3 >>>> or continues to: >>>> S5: Change-Under review (valid,accepted,tentative) [set by THESAURUS >>>> MANAGER] >>>> Q5: Does the validation committee accept this change? >>>> APPLY COMMITTEE DECISION and then return to S3 >>>> >>>> S6: Deprecate-Proposed (valid,withdrawn,pending)[set by ANYONE] >>>> Q6: Please justify up to the point it may accepted by the validation >>>> committee! >>>> X6: return to S3 >>>> or continues to: >>>> S7: Deprecate-Under review (valid,withdrawn,tentative) [set by >>>> THESAURUS >>>> >>>> MANAGER] >>>> Q7: Does the validation committee accept this deprecation? >>>> X7: return to S3 >>>> or continues to: >>>> S8: Deprecated (retired or superseded, withdrawn,final)[set by >>>> VALIDATION COMMITTEE] >>>> Q8: No more information linked with this? >>>> X8: Necessary to reactivate, ANYONE can put back in S1 ? >>>> or continues to: >>>> S9: Rejected (retired or superseded/notAccepted/final) [set by >>>> THESAURUS >>>> >>>> MANAGER, may be automated] >>>> Q9: Do we still feel rejecting this? >>>> X9: Necessary to reactivate, ANYONE can put back in S1 ? >>>> >>>> My colleagues may help me validate this and make a nice graph, it would >>>> really help! >>>> >>>> Have a nice evening! >>>> >>>> Christophe >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 29/06/2010 17:31, Simon Cox a écrit : >>>>> Also possibly of interest are the values in several enumeration >>>>> classes in ISO 19135 (Procedures for registration): >>>>> RE_ItemStatus:: >>>>> notValid (i.e. submitted but not yet processed) >>>>> valid >>>>> superseded (i.e. no longer valid but replaced by another item in >>>>> the register) >>>>> retired (i.e. no longer valid but not replaced). >>>>> RE_Disposition:: >>>>> withdrawn >>>>> accepted >>>>> notAccepted >>>>> RE_DecisionStatus:: >>>>> pending >>>>> tentative >>>>> final >>>>> As you can see, this model elaborates the status values on several axes. >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> *Simon Cox >>>>> * >>>>> European Commission, Joint Research Centre Institute for Environment >>>>> and Sustainability Spatial Data Infrastructures Unit, TP 262 Via E. >>>>> Fermi, 2749, I-21027 Ispra (VA), Italy >>>>> Tel: +39 0332 78 3652 >>>>> Fax: +39 0332 78 6325 >>>>> mailto:simon.cox@jrc.ec.europa.eu >>>>> http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/simon-cox >>>>> >>>>> SDI Unit: http://sdi.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ IES Institute: >>>>> http://ies.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ >>>>> JRC: http://www.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Any opinions expressed are personal unless otherwise indicated. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* public-esw-thes-request@w3.org >>>>> [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org] *On Behalf Of *Sue Ellen >>>>> Wright >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 24 June 2010 18:13 >>>>> *To:* Matthias Löbe >>>>> *Cc:* Bernard Vatant; Alistair Miles; Dan Brickley; Marc Wick; >>>>> Dublin Core; SKOS; Leigh Dodds; Libby Miller; Lise Rozat >>>>> *Subject:* Re: Status of resources (stable, testing etc) >>>>> >>>>> Dear Colleagues, >>>>> I am sending an HTML output from the TC 37 ISOcat Metadata >>>>> Registry (Data Category Registry) That shows our entry for >>>>> //administrative status//, which in many local termbases would >>>>> probably appear simply as //term status/. /We have issues within >>>>> the collection with distinguishing between different status >>>>> values, which is why the standardized data category looks a little >>>>> too complicated. The values are indeed the ones that Matthias has >>>>> identified in 10241 and they are widely used throughout TC 37 >>>>> standards and within the terminology management community. (Bear >>>>> in mind we are talking discourse/text-oriented terminology here, >>>>> which doesn't always behave the same way that SKOS terminology >>>>> does, but we've got lots of cross-over points of reference.) If >>>>> you look at this file in a browser and move down to the value >>>>> domain that is shown at the end, you can link to any one of the >>>>> data category specifications that are referenced there. You'll >>>>> find that "deprecated" refers to simply any term that is not >>>>> considered acceptable, whether it has always been unacceptable or >>>>> it has been changed to that status at some time. You will note >>>>> that this is something of a bone of contention, because some >>>>> linguists don't like the term and prefer to say "not recommended" >>>>> in this slot. Frankly, I don't really care what label people use >>>>> as long as they document the mapping to the right data category >>>>> definition. If you really want to specify that a term was once >>>>> used as accepted or preferred, but it has been rejected and >>>>> replaced by another term, you can use "superseded". In practice, >>>>> most people simply use "preferred", "admitted", and "deprecated" >>>>> (or "not recommended" if they belong to that camp). >>>>> BTW, the links are mnemonic representations of non-mnemonic >>>>> persistent identifiers that resolve the display you will see >>>>> through our RESTful interface. If anybody is interested in >>>>> referencing concepts from TC 37, we'd love to show you how this >>>>> works. We're also advocates of this kind of permanent linking >>>>> mechanism between web resources of all kinds, although not >>>>> everybody has the simple solution of using a registered ISO domain >>>>> to back up a cool URI. Check out ISOcat at http://www.isocat.org >>>>> <http://www.isocat.org/>. >>>>> Bye for now >>>>> Sue Ellen Wright, Chair, ISOcat Data Category Registry Board >>>>> >>>>> 2010/4/29 Matthias Löbe<matthias.loebe@imise.uni-leipzig.de >>>>> <mailto:matthias.loebe@imise.uni-leipzig.de>> >>>>> >>>>> Hello to all, >>>>> >>>>> ISO 10241 "International terminology standards" has a scale of >>>>> acceptability ratings comprised of: "preferred", "admitted", >>>>> "deprecated", "obsolete" and "superseded". >>>>> >>>>> Well, I always read "deprecated" as outdated, obsolete, >>>>> superseded, >>>>> archaic, "was once approved, but should not used furthermore". >>>>> >>>>> In contrast, I see cases where someone would like to express >>> a >>>>> status >>>>> "disapproved" as "We know it might be intuitive to raise such >>> a >>>>> concept and we've discussed it, but for good reason we >>>>> declined it and >>>>> won't discuss it again." (e.g. when a designation is not best >>>>> practice >>>>> in a certain context). >>>>> >>>>> M >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Matthias Löbe, Inst. for Medical Informatics (IMISE), >>>>> University of Leipzig >>>>> Härtelstr. 16, D-04107 Leipzig, +49 341 97 16113, >>>>> loebe@imise.uni-leipzig..de >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Sue Ellen Wright >>>>> Institute for Applied Linguistics >>>>> Kent State University >>>>> Kent OH 44242 USA >>>>> sellenwright@gmail.com<mailto:sellenwright@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> Terminology management: There is unfortunately no cure for >>>>> terminology; you can only hope to manage it. (Kelly Washbourne) >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
Received on Tuesday, 6 July 2010 09:57:28 UTC