- From: Dan Brickley <danbri@danbri.org>
- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 21:11:07 +0100
- To: Simon Spero <ses@unc.edu>
- Cc: Leonard Will <L.Will@willpowerinfo.co.uk>, Barbara Tillett <btil@loc.gov>, "Martha M. Yee" <marthamyee@sbcglobal.net>, "Allyson Carlyle (work)" <acarlyle@u.washington.edu>, Jane Greenberg <janeg@email.unc.edu>, "public-esw-thes@w3.org" <public-esw-thes@w3.org>, public-swd-wg@w3.org
(noting and setting aside for now Alistair's concern about terminology overlap re 'extension') On 13/2/09 21:40, Simon Spero wrote: > If the distinction is rejected, and the extension of SKOS concepts are > butterflies, not documents, then it is entirely redundant in the face of > OWL and its progeny. This has always been my main fear with SKOS and its ancestors, eg. http://ilrt.org/discovery/2001/01/rdf-thes/ ... that the natural enthusiasm many have for "cleaning" the supposed vagueness or messyness from thesaurus-like structures could slip into an ill-planned reinvention of RDF, RDFS and OWL on top of ... RDF, RDFS and OWL. Which as you say would be rather redundant. We have no shortage of self-referential technology already. So this kind of scoping reminder is very useful, although I will quibble with a detail. I think there are many people exploring SKOS who aren't so familiar with the facilities and conventions of the underlying RDF and OWL technology. The temptation to treat a SKOS "Butterfly" concept as a direct piece of modelling of the world is very strong. But the layer of indirection is there for a reason: it bridges the world with its various descriptions (in documents, data and elsewhere). And it gives a Web-identifier hook to one particular conceptualisation of Butterflies. When we want to say "some but not all things in the world are Butterflies" we have OWL already. SKOS can be used to say "some but not all the document-ish things in the world are _about_ _butterflies_", as well as "here is an id we can use for this particular notion of butterfly, so we can better talk about it later.". The classes-properties-instances mindset embodied in OWL is very widely applicable, but can also be an awkward and stilted style when you try to use it for everything, and especially for topics/subjects. SKOS compliments it fairly nicely. Re-reading "as a name of a subject, the term Butterflies refers not to actual butterflies but rather to the set of all indexed documents about butterflies." (Svenonius) ... I would step back from such a literal claim when considering what some SKOS concept might "refer to". I'd much rather say that a SKOS "butterflies" concept is a social and technological artifact designed to help interconnect descriptions of butterflies, documents (and data) about butterflies, and people with interest or expertise relating to butterflies. I'm quite consciously avoiding saying what a "butterflies" concept in SKOS "refers to", because theories of reference are hard to choose between. Instead, I prefer to talk about why we bother building SKOS and what we hope can be achieved by it. I don't believe a SKOS concept for "butterfly" (or "butterflies" or "Lepidoptera") is usefully described as literally referring to "the set of all documents about ..." those things. Nor to "the set of all users interested in ... those things". Nor "the set of all things that are butterflies". There are problems with taking any of those too literally. For me, the key value in the Svenonius quote is not that it tells us what these things refer to, but that it reminds us that we're in the business of connecting people with information. I can live quite happily without there being any story about what some SKOS concept refers directly to, so long as we emphasise its various named associations with documents and their topics; with user interests, needs and expertise, and also (hello, OWL...) with more formal descriptions of the world. cheers, Dan -- http://danbri.org/
Received on Wednesday, 18 February 2009 20:11:53 UTC