- From: Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>
- Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 15:48:50 +0200
- To: "Bernard Vatant" <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>, <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
- Cc: "Michel Biezunski" <mb@infoloom.com>
Just figured after sending the previous message that hubjects could fit in the SPEK scheme, as connectors of various aspects. Here they are now ... Bernard > -----Message d'origine----- > De : public-esw-thes-request@w3.org > [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]De la part de Bernard Vatant > Envoyé : vendredi 21 octobre 2005 15:07 > À : public-esw-thes@w3.org > Cc : Michel Biezunski > Objet : Proposal for a SPEK vocabulary RE: Subjects and perspectives in > SKOS : the jack of all trades ... > > > > > Hello all > > To put in a more formal way what I have in mind about perspectives and aspects, > I released > a proposal for a an extension of SKOS vocabulary, temptatively called SPEK [1], at > http://www.mondeca.com/lab/bernard/spek.rdf > > I've deliberately hi-jacked the SKOS namespace by using > http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/spek# > > It's still very rough, but I hope is simple enough to carry the message. > An aspect uses a subset of the description of a resource relevant to a certain > perspective. > A perspective defines classes of resources and properties which are used by > aspects using > it. > > The examples given are just ... examples, they don't pretend to define in any > absolute way > what is a "simple thesaurus" or a "simple taxonomy" or a "simple terminology". At the > opposite, they provide a way for any other community of users, or set of > applications, to > specify what they understand and manage. > > Comments welcome > > Bernard > > [1] SPEK is not supposed to be an acronym, it is the Indo-European root for "aspect", > "perspective" and others like "species", "scope", etc ... > See http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=spek > That said, any meaningful expansion is welcome :) > > ---------------------------------- > Bernard Vatant > Mondeca Knowledge Engineering > bernard.vatant@mondeca.com > (+33) 0871 488 459 > > http://www.mondeca.com > http://universimmedia.blogspot.com > ---------------------------------- > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > De : public-esw-thes-request@w3.org > > [mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org]De la part de Benjamin Nowack > > Envoyé : vendredi 21 octobre 2005 10:44 > > À : public-esw-thes@w3.org > > Objet : Re: Subjects and perspectives in SKOS : the jack of all trades > > ... > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > not sure if I completely understood the current discussion, > > but if the proposal is to change > > > > [[ > > #myConcept a skos:Concept; > > skos:prefLabel "my concept" . > > ]] > > > > to something more like > > > > [[ > > #myConcept a skos:Concept; > > skos:term [ > > a skos:Term; > > skos:termLabel "my concept"; > > skos:termType "preferred"; > > ... > > . > > ] . > > ]] > > > > (i.e. some sort of middle node between concepts and their > > lexical representations), I'd rather prefer the current model. > > I can see the utility of the 2nd approach for certain use cases, > > (and in fact I proposed something similar for notes some months > > ago) but apart from requiring a more or less complete re-design of > > SKOS a couple of weeks before the whole initiative ends, I also > > think it'd slow down SKOS' deployment. > > > > I always considered SKOS as being targetted at non-pro info > > organizers (thus *Simple* KOS), and it is actually seen as a > > candidate to bring balance to the force, err, semweb technology > > to the masses. The current "core" design facilitates the > > implementation of editors and efficient SPARQL-based browsers, > > and also the upgrading of things such as blog categories etc. > > to a machine-friendly format. > > > > Just my 1.5 cents, I may well have missed the whole point of this > > thread, in this case I apologize for the blather. > > > > benjamin > > > > -- > > Benjamin Nowack > > Chief Procrastination Officer > > > > Kruppstr. 100 > > 45145 Essen, Germany > > http://www.bnode.org/ > > > > > > On 20.10.2005 16:29:14, Sue Ellen Wright wrote: > > >Bernard wrote: > > >- or provide a way to express various perspectives, their respective > > >context, purpose, > > >rules, and the way to "hub" them (this is where hubjects could be relevant). > > > > > >The latter option if of course my favourite, even if much less obvious, it's > > >certainly a > > >winner in the long run. > > > This is precisely what I envision as well. What I'd love to see is a means > > >by which we could mutually "get at" concept-related information embedded in > > >other "perspectives" (which I often refer to as belonging to different > > >communities of practice). Even just in the terminology community, we've > > >identified multiple communities of practice. And we all have more to gain in > > >the long run from gentle(wo)manliness than discord because arguing about > > >perspective is about as useful as arguing about religion or sexual > > >preference -- it's a synch that we would never all agree on a single view, > > >and we'd end up losing a lot in the long run if we even tried. > > > Bye for now > > >Sue Ellen > > > > > > On 10/20/05, Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> Hello all > > >> > > >> Browsing all those very interesting ongoing threads about possible > > >> extensions of SKOS, > > >> relations with OWL, types of notes, terms-as-concepts, relevancy to > > >> terminology, etc ... > > >> keeps bringing me back to the notion of *perspective* as currently > > >> explored by Michel > > >> Biezunski [1], which I'm currently trying to bring along with my own > > >> current ramblings > > >> [2]. > > >> > > >> In the following, the *highlighted words* are used according to > > >> Biezunski's definition. Or > > >> at least they try to. Michel is in cc and will correct wherever I can get > > >> it wrong. > > >> > > >> According to Biezunski's terminology, a skos:Concept is a *proxy* for some > > >> *subject*, as > > >> any URI used in RDF is. The subject expressed by this proxy is in SKOS > > >> some abstract > > >> concept, likely to be expressed otherwise in many specific formal or > > >> unformal ways, in so > > >> many different schemes (thesaurus, taxonomy, ontology, terminology, ..) > > >> using so many > > >> different languages (SKOS, OWL, UML ...) and matching representation > > >> rules, and those > > >> expressions used in so many ways, for so many different purposes, in so > > >> many different > > >> contexts. A combination of all of those defines a *perspective* on the > > >> subject/concept. > > >> > > >> It's still unclear to me up to where a perspective on a skos:Concept can > > >> extend, were it > > >> to be defined. It could include at least the rdf:Description, and/or all > > >> related > > >> skos:Concepts in the same skos:ConceptScheme, or go as far as including > > >> this complete > > >> scheme, and this is certainly not the end of the story, since a useful > > >> perspective should > > >> certainly also include the purpose, ways, rules and context of use. > > >> > > >> In any case, this opens different interesting questions. > > >> > > >> The same URI can be used in different skos:Concept descriptions. So it has > > >> to be clarified > > >> if the proxy for the concept is the URI or one of its rdf:Description. > > >> > > >> The same skos:Concept can belong to, or be used in, a variety of > > >> perspectives. Not only > > >> because it can belong to various skos:ConceptScheme(s), but because each > > >> of those schemes > > >> can be used in different contexts, for different purposes, and in > > >> different ways : > > >> indexing and classification (which seems to be SKOS primary purpose), but > > >> also text mining > > >> and knowledge extraction, support for translation and publication tools > > >> ... > > >> > > >> Among all possible properties of a skos:Concept, some are only relevant to > > >> certain > > >> perspectives. Take for example the various kinds of notes, or properties > > >> on labels, or > > >> lexical properties of terms ... > > >> > > >> What does that lead us to? Interest for SKOS has attracted a variety of > > >> users with > > >> different perspectives (and that is really really good), each of them > > >> pushing gently (only > > >> gentle(wo)men here so far, very much appreciated) to allow the language to > > >> express, inside > > >> the same description of a single skos:Concept any other property relevant > > >> to their > > >> respective perspectives, at the risk of making at the end of the day such > > >> a description, > > >> as Stella rightly pointed, the jack of all trades and the master of none. > > >> > > >> Practically speaking, that means we are certainly at a point where SKOS > > >> should > > >> - either "close its scope", by specifying as much as possible in which > > >> kind of > > >> perspectives a skos:Concept is supposed to be used, and stick to the > > >> properties relevant > > >> to such perspectives. > > >> - or provide a way to express various perspectives, their respective > > >> context, purpose, > > >> rules, and the way to "hub" them (this is where hubjects could be > > >> relevant). > > >> > > >> The latter option if of course my favourite, even if much less obvious, > > >> it's certainly a > > >> winner in the long run. > > >> > > >> Enough for today. If there is some interest expressed in that, I can come > > >> up with more > > >> formal ideas about it. > > >> > > >> Cheers > > >> > > >> Bernard > > >> > > >> [1] > > >> > > >> > > >http://www.mulberrytech.com/Extreme/Proceedings/html/2005/Biezunski01/EML2005Bi > > >ezunski01.h > > >> tml > > >> [2] http://www.google.com/search?q=hubject > > >> > > >> ---------------------------------- > > >> Bernard Vatant > > >> Mondeca Knowledge Engineering > > >> bernard.vatant@mondeca.com > > >> (+33) 0871 488 459 > > >> > > >> http://www.mondeca.com > > >> http://universimmedia.blogspot.com > > >> ---------------------------------- > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Sue Ellen Wright > > >Institute for Applied Linguistics > > >Kent State University > > >Kent OH 44242 USA > > >sellenwright@gmail.com > > >swright@kent.edu > > >sewright@neo.rr.com > > > > > > > >
Received on Friday, 21 October 2005 13:49:19 UTC