- From: Stella Dextre Clarke <sdclarke@lukehouse.demon.co.uk>
- Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 10:05:27 +0100
- To: "'RichardN'" <RichardN@sfwindows.co.uk>
- Cc: <public-esw-thes@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <001401c5603f$ba4e7fc0$0300a8c0@DELL>
Richard,
Your questions are entirely reasonable, but I'm hoping someone else on
the list will answer them. I'm not strong enough on RDF/XML syntax. And
I'm hoping that what you are asking is just a question of syntax and
making the right declarations at the top of your schema. Or is there
more to it?
Stella
*****************************************************
Stella Dextre Clarke
Information Consultant
Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, Oxon, OX12 8RR, UK
Tel: 01235-833-298
Fax: 01235-863-298
SDClarke@LukeHouse.demon.co.uk
*****************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: RichardN [mailto:RichardN@sfwindows.co.uk]
Sent: 24 May 2005 09:32
To: Stella Dextre Clarke; Miles, AJ (Alistair); public-esw-thes@w3.org
Subject: RE: XML schemas and thesauri question
Hello Stella,
Thanks for your response. I think you've addressed the two questions
that I asked Alistair, but not in enough detail for me to understand
what you mean. I think the reason the issue is a "problem" for me is
down to my lack of understanding - hopefully you will bear with my
ignorance.
>>To do this, I guess, you would need to represent the thesaurus in some
form of XML format (which is best?)
>On the one hand, set up the thesaurus as a Namespace, available at all
times over the Internet or intranet.
I don't understand what you mean by this, sorry. Would it be possible
for you to give an example of how you would set up a short section of
thesaurus "as a namespace"?
>>and then the bit I don't see at all - declaring somewhere (in the XML
schema?) that the tissue sample type data item should be constrained in
the manner I explained.
> The schema must include the full details that allow this to be
connected up with the Namespace where this term may be found.
The example schema I provided had a definition for a child element of
"sample" called "type", whose value I wanted to constrain to one of a
set of values found in my thesaurus. How would I amend the definition
in the schema below in order to do this?
Thanks for any help,
Richard
_____
From: Stella Dextre Clarke [mailto:sdclarke@lukehouse.demon.co.uk]
Sent: 24 May 2005 09:02
To: 'Miles, AJ (Alistair)'; public-esw-thes@w3.org
Cc: RichardN
Subject: RE: XML schemas and thesauri question
Not sure I've understood why this is a problem. What's wrong with the
following course of action?:
On the one hand, set up the thesaurus as a Namespace, available at all
times over the Internet or intranet.
Secondly, develop the XML schema below a little further, to include an
element "tissue type" (or it could be "thesaurus term", if the schema is
to be used more broadly than just for tissue types).
Thirdly, when the schema is put to use, presumably a sample comes in,
the appropriate values are added to each of the elements, including the
one that will name the tissue type. The appropriate thesaurus term is
filled in, say "spleen". The schema must include the full details that
allow this to be connected up with the Namespace where this term may be
found.
Is something more complicated than this required? To me, sanity lies in
keeping the thesaurus (with all its internal complications) completely
separate from the application where terms from the thesaurus are going
to be used - but still available for reference when needed.
Stella
*****************************************************
Stella Dextre Clarke
Information Consultant
Luke House, West Hendred, Wantage, Oxon, OX12 8RR, UK
Tel: 01235-833-298
Fax: 01235-863-298
SDClarke@LukeHouse.demon.co.uk
*****************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: public-esw-thes-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-esw-thes-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Miles, AJ
(Alistair)
Sent: 23 May 2005 18:32
To: public-esw-thes@w3.org
Cc: RichardN@sfwindows.co.uk
Subject: FW: XML schemas and thesauri question
Further elaboration from Richard:
-----Original Message-----
From: RichardN [mailto:RichardN@sfwindows.co.uk]
Sent: 23 May 2005 13:24
To: Miles, AJ (Alistair)
Subject: RE: XML schemas and thesauri question
Hello Alistair,
Thank you for your reply. Apologies for not responding sooner; I have
been out of the office for a couple of days. Let me see if I can give
you a more specific example. Imagine a scientific lab is taking in
samples of animal tissue for analysis. Each sample is a data entity
with three data items (obviously in real life it would be more than
that): an ID, a weight in grams, and a tissue type field. You could set
up a schema to define your entity like this:
<xs:schema version="1.0" xmlns:xs="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
<xs:annotation>
<xs:documentation>Tissue sample
schema</xs:documentation>
</xs:annotation>
<xs:element name="sample">
<xs:annotation>
<xs:documentation>
Data entity for a tissue sample
(simple example)
</xs:documentation>
</xs:annotation>
<xs:complexType>
<xs:attribute name="id" use="required">
<xs:annotation>
<xs:documentation>
identifier for this sample
</xs:documentation>
</xs:annotation>
<xs:simpleType>
<xs:restriction
base="xs:integer">
<xs:minInclusive value="1" />
</xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>
</xs:attribute>
<xs:sequence>
<xs:element name="weight"
minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="1">
<xs:annotation>
<xs:documentation>
Weight of the tissue sample in grams
</xs:documentation>
</xs:annotation>
<xs:simpleType>
<xs:restriction base="xs:integer">
<xs:minInclusive value="1" />
<xs:maxInclusive value="999" />
</xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>
</xs:element>
<xs:element name="type"
minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="1">
<xs:annotation>
<xs:documentation>
Type of the tissue sample
</xs:documentation>
</xs:annotation>
<xs:simpleType>
<xs:restriction base="xs:string">
<xs:minLength value="1" />
<xs:maxLength value="80" />
</xs:restriction>
</xs:simpleType>
</xs:element>
</xs:sequence>
</xs:complexType>
</xs:element>
</xs:schema>
Now imagine there is a thesaurus with lots of terms covering the whole
of veterinary science, but which contains the following hierarchy:
animal anatomy
NT1: (animal secretions, body fluids, excretions and exudates)
NT1: animal organs
NT2: animal glands
NT2: brain
NT2: gall bladder
NT2: gills
NT2: heart
NT2: hepatopancreas
NT2: kidneys
NT2: liver
NT2: lungs
NT2: sense organs
NT2: shell gland
NT2: spleen
NT2: sting apparatus
NT2: stomach
NT3: gastric fundus
NT3: gastric mucosa
NT3: pylorus
NT3: ruminant stomach
NT2: tonsils
NT1: animal tissues
NT2: animal tissue extracts
NT2: basement membrane
NT2: bone marrow
NT2: cell membranes
NT2: connective tissues
NT2: epithelium
NT2: gingiva
NT2: imaginal discs
NT2: laminae (animals)
NT2: muscle tissues
NT2: nerve tissue
NT2: serosa
NT1: circulatory system
NT2: cardiovascular system
NT2: hemolymph
NT2: lymphatic system
NT1: digestive system
Etc. Each of these narrower terms has an extended hierarchy underneath
it. The kind of requirement I am talking about is being able to say
(for example): tissue sample type, which has been declared in the XML
schema as a string between 1 and 80 characters in length, should be
constrained to one of the thesaurus terms, either a narrower term of
"animal organs" or a narrower term of "animal tissues". To do this, I
guess, you would need to represent the thesaurus in some form of XML
format (which is best?) and then the bit I don't see at all - declaring
somewhere (in the XML schema?) that the tissue sample type data item
should be constrained in the manner I explained.
For added complication, you could add the rule - all narrower terms of
"animal organs" or "animal tissues", EXCEPT "stomach" or any narrower
term of "stomach".
Does that make any sense?
Thanks for any help you can provide me,
Richard
Richard Northedge
SFW Ltd.
_____
From: Miles, AJ (Alistair) [mailto:A.J.Miles@rl.ac.uk]
Sent: 18 May 2005 17:41
To: RichardN
Subject: RE: XML schemas and thesauri question
Hi Richard,
This is a very interesting use case! Can you give more details, more
specific examples of the kinds of constraint you want to enforce?
Cheers,
Alistair.
---
Alistair Miles
Research Associate
CCLRC - Rutherford Appleton Laboratory
Building R1 Room 1.60
Fermi Avenue
Chilton
Didcot
Oxfordshire OX11 0QX
United Kingdom
Email: a.j.miles@rl.ac.uk
Tel: +44 (0)1235 445440
-----Original Message-----
From: RichardN [mailto:RichardN@sfwindows.co.uk]
Sent: 18 May 2005 15:00
To: Miles, AJ (Alistair)
Subject: XML schemas and thesauri question
Hello Alistair,
I am one of Daniel Whymark's colleagues, and he mentioned to me that you
might be able to help with an XML / semantic web type question that I
have. To give you some indication of my current level of understanding:
I am comfortable with XML and XML schemas, and have been reading up
about semantic web concepts, but I don't have a strong grasp of any of
the semantic web -type XML languages such as RDF, XML topic maps, OWL
etc. I have come across SCOS, but that's about as far as it goes.
We need to define a standard format for our data entities. The obvious
way of doing this is to define the format using XML schemas.
We also have an ISO 2788 style thesaurus with BT (broader term), NT
(narrower term) etc. Some of the data items in the data entities should
have their values restricted to a set of preferred terms in the
thesaurus. For example, a data item might need to be restricted so that
the set of allowable values includes the thesaurus term "United Kingdom"
and all of the narrower terms belonging to the "United Kingdom" term.
In some cases, it may be necessary to restrict the levels of narrower
terms underneath the root term that are allowable.
My question is: what is the best way of encoding the thesaurus in
standards-compliant XML in such a way that it can be linked to the XML
schemas, so that we can enforce the data item restrictions I have
outlined?
Any help you can give me would be much appreciated,
Regards,
Richard
Richard Northedge
SFW Ltd.
Received on Tuesday, 24 May 2005 09:05:27 UTC